tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post1695307774117930914..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Cultural appropriation is great!Noah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-41823839647827354592016-08-22T15:30:10.161-04:002016-08-22T15:30:10.161-04:00As an Asian who digs Mexican food and hip hop and ...As an Asian who digs Mexican food and hip hop and goes to black lives matter protests, I concur! It's hard to learn about other cultures without examples of them in your daily life and music, arts, foods are the stuff of daily life that can build empathy across cultural divides. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-76082700624482084692015-12-25T23:26:55.725-05:002015-12-25T23:26:55.725-05:00"You're so vain. I bet you think this co..."You're so vain. I bet you think this comment is about you."Cesiumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02025636403503365433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-61457026569874128352015-12-25T23:24:56.896-05:002015-12-25T23:24:56.896-05:00Y'all oughta learn to read.Y'all oughta learn to read.Cesiumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02025636403503365433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-26309591401376972752015-12-25T23:08:24.313-05:002015-12-25T23:08:24.313-05:00Indians shmindians. You are wanting a nice Thai c...Indians shmindians. You are wanting a nice Thai curry.Cesiumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02025636403503365433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-8880338987262199662015-12-25T22:59:57.069-05:002015-12-25T22:59:57.069-05:00"trying and failing"
It isn't "..."trying and failing"<br />It isn't "trying and failing". It's taking what you like from another culture and adapting it to your own.<br /><br />My wife is Thai, and a great cook. When she came to California, she found, for the first time, sweet bell peppers. Orange and red and yellow. She took this item and added it to a traditional thai recipe to create a wonderful Thai-California fusion recipe.<br /><br />In cooking, you look to other recipes for inspiration. You aren't trying to copy an existing recipe and failing miserably. You're looking at a list of ingredients for inspiration. You might leave out a few ingredients that you don't like or that are locally difficult to acquire; you might add ingredients easy to acquire that you find tasteful.Cesiumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02025636403503365433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-6819483091761318612015-12-25T22:52:11.226-05:002015-12-25T22:52:11.226-05:00"It was originally a failed Italian attempt t..."It was originally a failed Italian attempt to copy Chinese noodles"<br /><br />Could you footnote that with a peer-reviewed reference? The book I'm reading now (_Why the West Rules, For Now_ which I think was suggested via this blog...) seems to suggest a different provenance.<br /><br />See also:<br />http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/06/pasta-is-not-originally-from-italy/Cesiumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02025636403503365433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-84617300900157530552015-12-25T00:24:46.057-05:002015-12-25T00:24:46.057-05:00And when all is said and done, university cafeteri...And when all is said and done, university cafeteria food is still horrible.<br /><br />Some things never change.<br /><br />(I think the kiddies had a real complaint, i.e. the food was terrible AND their cultures were being, if not blamed, than at least being made co-conspirators in this crime against students. And they had the brilliance to use contemporary linguistic technology (i.e. post-modernist ranting) to get their complaint heard. And they succeeded. Good work, kiddies!)<br /><br />David J. Littleboynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-63180016074253304382015-12-24T16:42:02.932-05:002015-12-24T16:42:02.932-05:00Or maybe people are telling you that what you are ...Or maybe people are telling you that what you are thinking is wrong because facts and reasons, but you are choosing to hear only the race card.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02681526348633581059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-37181021978393004462015-12-23T23:11:11.569-05:002015-12-23T23:11:11.569-05:00Hear, hear!Hear, hear!Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03012923514642738286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-70170632395377822992015-12-23T20:32:50.003-05:002015-12-23T20:32:50.003-05:00I don't know what financial aid has to do with...I don't know what financial aid has to do with anything we're talking about here. At most colleges I can have ten million dollars in the bank and still get a scholarship.<br /><br />As far as whether or not Oberlin students (or any college students for that matter) are privileged or not depends on the definition. Seeing as how most people in the world don't have access to higher education, it's not much of a stretch to call any college student privileged, just for the fact that they're in college. Second, when a group of people start complaining about something that most people don't really think is an issue, such as the lack culturally authentic food being served in dining halls, those people tend to be ridiculed. Combine one and two and you can see why Oberlin students don't get much support on this one.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403568348078917380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-37362884773670444832015-12-23T20:17:05.354-05:002015-12-23T20:17:05.354-05:00First, I haven't made any comments on the vali...First, I haven't made any comments on the validity of past comments, or these two comments, based on the demographics of the authors. I have done so, however, based on logic; that is the bulk of my second comment.<br /><br />Second, what am I making up, exactly? I've made no mention of so-called cultural appropriation of food--you seem to have put those words in my mouth. My problem comes from past commentators unfairly characterizing Oberlin students. I think most people on the outside are using cultural appropriation of food (which certainly exists, but is not particularly strong in this case) as a straw man, to use the words of a past commentator, to attack college kids in general. That is what I have challenged in all of my comments.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08150660860608360783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-63101005168448044552015-12-23T18:20:02.111-05:002015-12-23T18:20:02.111-05:00Not that you're wrong, but you're kinda ma...Not that you're wrong, but you're kinda making sh-t up here. Chinese food was introduced to Americans largely by the Chinese Exclusion Act, not Panda express. But of course, there's an even better example there - chow mein!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-65689075379899327032015-12-23T11:23:04.791-05:002015-12-23T11:23:04.791-05:00I am older, I am male, and I am white. And I'm...I am older, I am male, and I am white. And I'm pretty tired of being told that what I think is wrong because of my age, gender, and race. Now get off my fucking lawn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-770821126965068422015-12-23T11:12:15.324-05:002015-12-23T11:12:15.324-05:00Right, except that 70% of Oberlin students receive...Right, except that 70% of Oberlin students receive some form of financial aid. I've yet to see comments on any piece of writing (not just this one) that mentions this little tidbit. 50k/year (closer to 60k, actually) is a lot of money, but throwing expenses around without revenue is meaningless. This lack of context makes subsequent criticisms that much harder to swallow. (Now, the rates for financial are different for international students, who were the students quoted in the original piece, so my response may be invalid on this point. But I hope you see why I reject the overarching notion that Oberlin students are rich and privileged.)<br /><br />Speaking of missed context, most of the national media portrayals of what's been happening in Oberlin have glossed over plenty of details. Which is what happens with the media, but it's ridiculous that media accounts do not talk about the system of cooking in dining halls that has produced dissatisfactory food for certain students (I worked in the campus dining halls for 3 and 1/2 years). Actually, it's not ridiculous that this isn't talked about, if the main topic is not about the act of students protesting food, but rather the character of students who are assumed to be privileged and unreasonable. (Which, as paragraph one indicates, has some serious holes on at least one account. As for being unreasonable, I will say that most Oberlin students are not in with the activist crowd.)<br /><br />Moreover, when you say that "the students made it into a big deal," you are claiming that an op-ed written in the student newspaper (I've written four before) was intended all along to be taken first by clickbait, and from there further disaggregated across more respected outlets? Really? Student activists at Oberlin protest about a lot of things, Nick, but most of those causes don't make national headlines. Thus, there is selectivity that is out of the hands of students. I don't disagree with most of the criticisms of students (I am writing mine right now for my peers), but I certainly disagree with the idea that "we had this coming."<br /><br />So... I'm not seeing the apparently obvious. I think that most commentators intend to say they think college students at Oberlin are rude and entitled, but rather than being straightforward they wrap their criticisms in lazy, half-informed opinions.<br /><br />As for the mostly older, mostly White section of my first post: I have no definite proof of the identities of past commentators. But looking at names and profile pictures gave me enough confidence to make that presumption. (To clarify, older and white are separate indicators.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08150660860608360783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-49676836876745307132015-12-22T12:30:00.804-05:002015-12-22T12:30:00.804-05:00It's pretty obvious why many commentators (who...It's pretty obvious why many commentators (who you point out as mostly older, mostly white, which may or may not be true) take issue with this story.<br /><br />As you say, a campus dining hall serving bad Asian food isn't really a big deal. But the students made it into a big deal. National headlines-type of big deal. So yes people will point the finger at them for being privileged for it.<br /><br />Secondly, in a semi-defense of the students, dining halls don't operate in the same fashion as, say, the corner grocery selling sushi. If the average person doesn't like the sushi at the grocery store, they don't complain. They just go somewhere else for their sushi. They certainly don't rally a large group of neighbors and demand the grocery store change their menu. Dining halls at universities to some extent operate as a monopoly, and students may not have as much of a choice in the matter. This misunderstanding may be another reason why the students get little sympathy.<br /><br />Most students just grin and bear their dining hall food, and for some it's part of the nostalgia of the college experience. Others don't even get to go to college, so to complain about the dining hall options for food that (in most cases) is paid for by their parents is rich kid whining, plain and simple. <br /><br />Since there's really not a large group who would sympathize with the students, almost by definition the Oberlin story is an indication of privilege. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403568348078917380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-27286330852411189372015-12-21T23:35:04.795-05:002015-12-21T23:35:04.795-05:00I like how the last paragraph of Section 4 describ...I like how the last paragraph of Section 4 describes exactly what happened at Oberlin: saying these particular foods are crappy and requesting they be improved, which would suggest progress towards true cultural diversity.<br /><br />Do I think bad Asian food served by campus dining services is that big a deal? No. But can it be easily rectified and accomplish some of the positive objectives outlined in this post? Yeah. Pretty easily, in fact. Just have some students voice their complaints (identify the problem), have dining services respond (assess the problem), and allow students and dining services to meet and improve the menu (solve the problem). Note that this is exactly what has happened.<br /><br />Not entirely sure why (mostly older, mostly White) commentators find this so problematic, or indicative of rich kid privilege.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />A recent Oberlin graduateAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08150660860608360783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-36883137652126790992015-12-21T23:29:39.242-05:002015-12-21T23:29:39.242-05:00I always try to be a good troll. It's a moral ...I always try to be a good troll. It's a moral imperative.Krzyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15794655390770135247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-5568125088140122902015-12-21T23:29:35.293-05:002015-12-21T23:29:35.293-05:00I always try to be a good troll. It's a moral ...I always try to be a good troll. It's a moral imperative.Krzyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15794655390770135247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-58164571218280676922015-12-21T18:55:45.150-05:002015-12-21T18:55:45.150-05:00It might bring some pushback to that conservinvasi...It might bring some pushback to that conservinvasion, but then it'd also get really irate at some of EJMR's finest cultural traditions, like aspie virgins and aspie chinabros, fieckers, ATD, 6'4 nordic bro, and defend the lifestyle choices of the poo troll. It'd be an end of an era..Kainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841689865415250256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40429228211963749832015-12-21T17:52:38.044-05:002015-12-21T17:52:38.044-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403568348078917380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-7497083585933339472015-12-20T22:47:14.653-05:002015-12-20T22:47:14.653-05:00There is, incidentally, a thriving business in Ita...There is, incidentally, a thriving business in Italy of training young Japanese working in the restaurant business in the fine art of Italian cooking. (I know this because I had a vacation that involved cooking lessons at such a school--there were about 12 Americans on vacation and about 20 Japanese (between the ages of maybe 18 and 21) doing a 3 month course.)Don Coffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07198988872512792834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-16995819639014680242015-12-20T21:59:16.688-05:002015-12-20T21:59:16.688-05:00bad troll is bad at trolling?bad troll is bad at trolling?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13306308342580428010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-82312526408325825672015-12-20T21:55:44.086-05:002015-12-20T21:55:44.086-05:00Fair.Fair.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-77455589211505132322015-12-20T20:12:54.199-05:002015-12-20T20:12:54.199-05:00Hello? Cultural appropriation has been going on f...Hello? Cultural appropriation has been going on flat out for thousands of years of years and probably back into prehistory. Anthropological evidence suggests early hominids appropriated tool making technologies. Chimpanzees have been observed doing it.Jim Birchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07415199338332642534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-87992519999786350462015-12-20T17:56:23.602-05:002015-12-20T17:56:23.602-05:00Counterpoint: pesto bagels are an abomination unt...Counterpoint: pesto bagels are an abomination unto the Lord.Mike the Mad Biologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08367677667143801414noreply@blogger.com