tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post2632469669226194707..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: The Robot Lords and the end of People PowerNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-69673812271983947502014-03-25T08:01:58.353-04:002014-03-25T08:01:58.353-04:00-->"2) Historically, gangs of barbarian th...-->"2) Historically, gangs of barbarian thugs ruled autocratically because they bought off the nerds. Samurai, Prussians, what have you, they depended on an elite group of engineers to build their weaponry. Speaking of Prussians, certain of their missteps sent the nerds elsewhere."<--<br /><br />This.<br /><br />Buying off the nerds requires... finesse. Our 1% doesn't seem to have it.<br /><br /><br />"4) Looks like the thugs and the nerds are getting back together again. It didn't work out for us last time, and I don't think it will this time either."<br />No, actually, I think the thugs and the nerds were working together starting in the 1980s -- when the NSA was a coveted career for mathematics PhDs -- and we're witnessing the BREAKUP. (Snowden, anyone?) The nerds are not being treated right by the thugs, and they're recognizing it.neroden@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07475686367097445497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-80643603282087702422014-03-25T07:57:32.925-04:002014-03-25T07:57:32.925-04:00As I note below, all the drones are currently soft...As I note below, all the drones are currently software controlled. The 1%ers wouldn't know how to program one. They probably don't even really know what "programming" is.<br /><br />Of course, mass-produced drones will all be running the *same* software.<br /><br />Remember the bit in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace where Anakin & company hack the robot army? Yeah. That's what would happen.<br /><br />This is potentially a dystopia, but it's a very different one.<br /><br />I'll note that really good computer programmers tend to have autism-spectrum traits and be extremely anti-authoritarian. No way will they just work for the 1%ers. We might get the lawless libertarian dystopia, but not the authoritarian one.neroden@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07475686367097445497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-1932402844073499032014-03-25T07:53:56.754-04:002014-03-25T07:53:56.754-04:00Won't happen, Noah, and here's why.
Iran ...Won't happen, Noah, and here's why.<br /><br />Iran brought down a US drone not so long ago. And analyzed the innards. And hacked it. And reverse-engineered it. And...<br /><br />...well, not to put too fine a point on it, the robots only do what the programmers tell them to. <br /><br />So this world you describe is not the world where the leisure class 1%-er financial overlords rule... it's the world where the most competent HACKERS, like Edward Snowden, rule.<br /><br />Think about it. You may find this to be a dystopia too, but it's a very different dystopia.neroden@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07475686367097445497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-48528837558729760162014-03-19T12:53:14.519-04:002014-03-19T12:53:14.519-04:00"The end game seems to be one human owning al..."The end game seems to be one human owning all the robots, plus maybe a few personal slaves."<br /><br />No, the end game is when the remaining human oligarchs are overthrown by their industrial products.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03735687410084768672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-88451601726787421302014-03-15T09:40:36.777-04:002014-03-15T09:40:36.777-04:00no, the mob control have plenty of alternatives, t...no, the mob control have plenty of alternatives, the drone control is so so....simplex<br /><br />biochemical control <br /><br />crowd control by indoctrination american way with concentration camps for 3 million pauper's that are anti-social <br /><br />and the normal in Sci-fi decapitation charges or explosive devices for everybody for free<br /><br />like in several books from 1934 to 1971 and after<br /><br />The anome is one of this series <br /><br />The Anome (alternate title: The Faceless Man) is a science fiction novel by American writer Jack Vance, first published in 1973 (copyright 1971); it is the first book in the Durdane series of novels.<br />Plot summary<br /><br />It tells the story of a boy growing to manhood in the land of Shant, a society composed of many different, and wildly individual cantons, some of which are run by cults. Each adult wears an explosive torc which can be detonated by remote command, bringing about instant death by decapitation. The torcs are controlled by an anonymous dictator, the Anome, whose identity is literally unknown. <br />Because those whose heads are exploded are selected primarily by the cantonal leaders, for violations of local law, the Anome is able to operate with only a handful of assistants, or 'Benevolences', who themselves do not know his identity.E agora para algo con pateta mente diferencialhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14926191646174293381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-48519399312421443212014-03-15T00:20:22.985-04:002014-03-15T00:20:22.985-04:00"as dystopian thought experiments go, orwell&..."as dystopian thought experiments go, orwell's "1984" and huxley's "brave new world" are the gold standard for both contemporary commentary and predictive accuracy."<br /><br />Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano seems more prescient to me. But Vonnegut apparently admitted ripping off Brave New World.Mark Bahnerhttp://markbahner.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-24303841411363227892014-03-14T22:33:02.771-04:002014-03-14T22:33:02.771-04:00in some places like somalia and haiti you already ...in some places like somalia and haiti you already have 50 or 60% doing the same<br />but they consume, and consuming is the raison d'être<br /><br />or d'ai tree c'est la même choseraison d'êtrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-57934839110794121612014-03-14T17:53:44.180-04:002014-03-14T17:53:44.180-04:00This article really scared the hell out of me, thi...This article really scared the hell out of me, this is a very very possible prognostication of the future.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02264335693068654905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-34451602417520206162014-03-14T14:59:26.432-04:002014-03-14T14:59:26.432-04:00Sing...like sing-sing my people have extra S.S'...Sing...like sing-sing my people have extra S.S's in itBanda in barbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09573682791396956162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-34008620805814829732014-03-14T14:41:20.696-04:002014-03-14T14:41:20.696-04:00the state is made of men....the heavy weaponry is ...the state is made of men....the heavy weaponry is expensive and need protection against lytic substances that alter the weapon <br /><br />and protection against physical conditions for instance now i have 72,3º F and this night the temperature drops at 52 or 56ºF is a warm winter with lots of american's playing golf in this forsaken country<br /><br />the oil in this condition's can penetrate some surfaces of the Tiger or Leopard II tank by mechanisms related to crack's and small breaks that time (the Time with TimeLord in with) uses like a specialized strategy to destroy machines<br /><br />low-cost manufacturing don't achieve eternity,,,<br />manufacturing implies a place that can be targeted to be destroyed<br /><br />if you have functional machinery robot-like weaponry that endures the eon's <br />let's say a indestructible magical weapon like the t-1000 the liquid metal or metaloide guy he T-1000 is a fictional robotic assassin and the primary antagonist in Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Created by the series main antagonist Skynet, the T-1000 is a shapeshifter whose body is composed of liquid metal that allows it to assume the form of other objects (commonly knives and stabbing weapons) or people, typically terminated victims.[1] Therefore, it is portrayed by multiple actors in the film. It is further explained in the prologue of the film's Novelization, that the T-1000 was created through nano technology, and is a Nanomorph, able to scan the molecular structure of whatever it is touching and visually mimic <br /><br /> or the whisper men<br /><br />Do you hear the Whisper Men? The Whisper Men are near.<br />If you hear the Whisper Men then turn away your ear.<br />Do not hear the Whisper Men, whatever else you do.<br />For once you've heard the Whisper Men they'll stop. And look at you. <br /><br />this kind of magical weapons are more effective to control the 99,9%<br />in Turkey or in Syria or in the Crimean Wars from XXI century fox <br /><br />with people armies they are defective<br /> they kill the !% that they shoukd protect <br />Kadhafi or gadafi or Ceausescu or Siade-Barre well they fail to kill Siade but they don't have the appropriate environment <br /><br />in september 74 a heavy armored group of people kill about 2 to 5 thousand people in the suburbia of Maputo in Mozambique some days later about 5 thousand suburban guys with Katana's not kitanas ok ...dai.katana in jap<br /><br />make a run in the center of the town <br />and 50 thousand armed men .....just fled<br />well some die or burn ,,,,<br />5 thousand against a city with 200 thousand with 50 thousand automatic gun's and several tanks,,,,<br />and the imperial or colonial system collapsed in one single day<br /><br />Banda in barbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09573682791396956162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-61139590655940511882014-03-14T13:49:53.474-04:002014-03-14T13:49:53.474-04:00I should have also said that that's why democr...I should have also said that that's why democracy is so crucial.<br /><br />The government has a monopoly on military power. The voters influence the government by voting. Therefore the voters can influence the government to use its monopoly on military power to prevent any serious accumulation of robotized weaponry by rich people no matter how cheap it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-35942505610253043012014-03-14T13:46:31.631-04:002014-03-14T13:46:31.631-04:00The state already has a monopoly on heavy weaponry...The state already has a monopoly on heavy weaponry.<br /><br />I am not sure that robotics somehow changes that.<br /><br />If the government can prevent Tom Perkins from using a tank to protect his mansion today why can't they prevent him from owning a mech droid tomorrow?<br /><br />Low-cost manufacturing of drone robots isn't the answer.<br /><br />Ultimately, the government has the first mover advantage in that it has a monopoly on power RIGHT NOW and can use it to squash any accumulation of robotized weaponry by billionaires before they can ever accumulate enough drones to fight back and establish their robot-economy enclaves, no matter how cheap the drones are.<br /><br />tl;dr Tom Perkins can't build an army today and low-cost drones won't help him build a robot army tomorrowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-66725807385227432372014-03-14T13:07:33.378-04:002014-03-14T13:07:33.378-04:00THE word is best
in any bestiarium you have the ...THE word is best <br /><br />in any bestiarium you have the best<br /><br />THEY ARE SWARM'S OF WORD'S THAT MAKE WORLDS<br /><br />they are small swarm's of words and of worlds and BIG ones<br /><br />For a society to be successful in growth and in cultural reproduction like the american society at least in the former Imperial years, you need diversity, you need the swarm's of the best in any bestiarium<br /><br />words that make worlds <br /><br />and words that take worlds like alea jacta est<br /><br />bestiarium is a word with best in it,,,<br /><br />the words are vectors for change<br /><br />vectors that create new worlds .....................<br /><br />tempus fugit à pressahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14016161054765653473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-82729087977138113562014-03-14T04:57:25.899-04:002014-03-14T04:57:25.899-04:00Very well argued.Very well argued.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-84019778051495963242014-03-14T04:56:01.074-04:002014-03-14T04:56:01.074-04:00Tom,
this is so mixed up, I don't know where ...Tom,<br /> this is so mixed up, I don't know where to start. (For a start the resource limits on food and shelter have almost nothing to do with available labour).reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-52100550458356016222014-03-13T16:37:35.616-04:002014-03-13T16:37:35.616-04:00Petro-states like the iranian in 1979?
venezuela? ...Petro-states like the iranian in 1979?<br />venezuela? Lybia?<br />well syria is a pipeline-state but have some Petro-in the state und gas....Para a Posteridade e mais Alémhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16303074095059302919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-59762030601188231092014-03-13T16:34:29.714-04:002014-03-13T16:34:29.714-04:00my name is not legion
i'am an hoplite in the...my name is not legion <br /><br />i'am an hoplite in the phalanx,,,,<br /><br />i'am the φάλαγγα.....well in new greek is phalanja or phalanga,,,,<br /><br />but i'am greek i bring gifts<br /><br />dijous, 13 març de 2014<br /><br />GUESS THE YEAR OF THE JACKPOT AND WIN A FREE NOBEL IN THE SUPERNOVAE FLARE - ECONOMIC FLARE YEAR 201? 2020? 202? GUESS THE YEAR AND WIN ONE TRILLION OF ESCUDOS COMPLETELY TAX FREE<br />Kondratiev wave<br />It's economics stupid .....<br />In economics, Kondratiev waves (also called supercycles, great surges, long waves, K-waves or the long economic cycle) are supposedly cycle-like phenomena in the modern world economy.<br /><br />The period of the wave averages at fifty, and ranges from approximately forty to sixty years, the cycles consist of alternating intervals...<br /><br /><br />Potiphar Breen is a middle-aged bachelor with a settled, orderly life,<br /><br />a nobel prize of economics in the year of the jackpot is just comicPara a Posteridade e mais Alémhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16303074095059302919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-1968236290992752582014-03-13T15:29:31.672-04:002014-03-13T15:29:31.672-04:00servants? cervantes? don quijote?
the elite only...servants? cervantes? don quijote? <br /><br />the elite only have this name because they have servants<br /><br />mechanical servants don't produce good elites<br /><br />It's so hard to tell a syn ( synthetic men) from a human<br /><br />Methodically, the syns were being rooted out and destroyed....<br /><br />Scientists feared as much as half the population turn out to be syns<br /><br />or homeless people or russian's or chinese or soviet's the enemy within us<br /><br />is a old old taleJagganathahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05518256435231961852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-29848032788784316612014-03-13T15:19:49.964-04:002014-03-13T15:19:49.964-04:00no i'am not a anglo-saxon ergo i don't hav...no i'am not a anglo-saxon ergo i don't have the sire or the shire<br /><br />bestiary is from the animal kingdom<br /><br />i'am a Syn,,,,,Raymond F.Jones 1969Jagganathahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05518256435231961852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-91950816849625757362014-03-13T11:54:23.595-04:002014-03-13T11:54:23.595-04:00Noah, great note - The Age of the Gun led to
One G...Noah, great note - The Age of the Gun led to<br />One Gun, One Target >> majority wins battles.<br />"God created Man ... Colt made him equal"<br /><br />The Gov't will not allow private drones to seriously threaten gov't power, so the rich and powerful will make sure they control the gov't, especially by using IRS, NSA, FBI and other gov't organs to oppress any opposition, as the Obama admin has already started doing.<br />Funny, you seem quite willing to support that crap, as long as it's against the Republican folk you don't like. Funny sad.<br /><br />You say: " To pay the poor, you have to tax the rich, and the Robot Lords are unlikely to stand for that."<br />This is stupidly silly, since the rich already accept huge amounts of taxes being paid to support the poor. Not yet enough to support a median tax payer level of income for every non-worker, but as the cost of food and clothes and housing (somewhere) goes down, nobody in America can't afford food, clothes, and a place to sleep (with behavior restrictions). <br /><br />If Dems want taxes so high that the top 1% is no longer ... the top 1%, that's pretty dumb. Somebody will always be in the top 1%. And wealth, far more than income, will become more important for ownership control over robots and production facilities.<br /><br />I think the huge potential for materialist benefits to all from drone based production means the cost of living a modest, "working class" life like what those in the US making about $40-50k live will be available to all willing to work, even at below minimum wages.<br />(Perhaps not so easy for single mothers, but it's intellectually dishonest to avoid sexual behavior issues and the economic consequences of unmarried promiscuity when discussing income redistribution to those in need.)<br /><br />Anyway, drone production will be a huge issue for lower prices of life necessities, and will be an alternate upheaval over drone warriors.Tom Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15046612425809449502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-77458098811501316602014-03-13T11:13:35.226-04:002014-03-13T11:13:35.226-04:00Wonderful, thought provoking post. But the premise...Wonderful, thought provoking post. But the premise is wrong.<br /><br />Someone once said 'no taxation without representation', and a state must enfranchise its taxpayers or risk revolt. These used to be landowners only, then merchants, nowadays labourers too. The Huns, robber-barons and pirates -- who had military power but no economic base -- eventually were overcome by or became taxing states. Petro-states do not need to rely on the consent of their population and generally rule of law and civil society is weaker there.<br /><br />It is institutions, not technology, that determine economic outcomes. Says Martin Wolf (Feb 11).Neuromancerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03592834539415647063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-38584411447622113692014-03-13T11:02:33.064-04:002014-03-13T11:02:33.064-04:00You sir qualify as Uncategorizable:
http://noahp...You sir qualify as Uncategorizable: <br /><br />http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/econotrolls-illustrated-bestiary.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-64228994697304716392014-03-13T03:17:06.287-04:002014-03-13T03:17:06.287-04:00That is kind of a key point. The middle ages knigh...That is kind of a key point. The middle ages knight who trained all his life to fight in the pre-gun era could certainly defeat one or several peasants. But this guy *trained all his life to fight.* Are the 1% going to personally run the drones? Break me a give. And if they rely on hired hands to run the drones, they've handed off military power to a force which could easily turn against them and rebel. <br /> Anyway, you can easily have complete totalitarianism even when guns are the top technology. North Korea, anyone? Democracy v. totalitarianism doesn't really depend on technology. Oh, and the business about people "waking up" and withdrawing support from Stalinism or Maoism? Didn't happen. Couldn't happen. There was simply no way for ordinary people to "withdraw support." What actually happened is that the communists themselves decided that complete totalitarianism was a horrible way to live. Only after the *leaders* shut down the terror was it possible for popular opinion to have any meaning. gnscotthttp://charter.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-30358237291599250582014-03-13T02:37:24.186-04:002014-03-13T02:37:24.186-04:00Autonomous killer drones only become fearsome if t...Autonomous killer drones only become fearsome if their designers have solved the hard, hard, very hard, unebelievably hard problem of producing genuine artificial intelligence.<br /><br />Otherwise, humans will be able to outwit and easily destroy the drones by doing something simple like holding a mirror up to its sensors.<br /><br />And if drone designers can solve the absurdly hard problem of producing true AI, drones will prove much less dangerous than the resulting superintelligent machines.<br /><br />Personally, my take on the hard AI problem is the same as Bruce Sterling's -- "AI research" belongs to the same category as "alchemy research" or "phlogiston research." <br /><br />So we're likely to get the same kind of dumb autonomous machines we have now...lethal killer machines that blow up wedding parties and target trees as insurgents. Not much of a danger there.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10994509912655287453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-46818874969992600022014-03-13T01:38:50.902-04:002014-03-13T01:38:50.902-04:00Well, pretty out there! But:
1) Lately the newly ...Well, pretty out there! But:<br /><br />1) Lately the newly educated masses have discovered that extreme inequality has been the historical norm, that the world they grew up in was an aberration. That's interesting!<br /><br />2) Historically, gangs of barbarian thugs ruled autocratically because they bought off the nerds. Samurai, Prussians, what have you, they depended on an elite group of engineers to build their weaponry. Speaking of Prussians, certain of their missteps sent the nerds elsewhere.<br /><br />3) Guns democratized power, enabling the rise of the bourgeoisie (first in Switzerland, fwiw). It always seemed funny to me, how the urban haute bourgeoisie hate guns and gun lovers so much, when it's just two sides of the middle class culture that broke the aristos.<br /><br />4) Looks like the thugs and the nerds are getting back together again. It didn't work out for us last time, and I don't think it will this time either.<br /><br />5) Revolutions may be done for, but coups aren't.<br /><br />6) Etc.<br /><br />7) Economics should have experiments.<br /><br />8) +1<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com