tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post3009844361286976790..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Idea of the day: National universitiesNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-76169933664127252532011-04-30T21:43:34.694-04:002011-04-30T21:43:34.694-04:00Aaron Ansel : "The lack of candidates to fil...Aaron Ansel : "The lack of candidates to fill all those so-called "good jobs" out there isn't a result of not enough educated graduates, it's a result of not enough U.S. citizens choosing majors that will give them the skills needed for the jobs that do exist."<br /><br />In which case we should see skyrocketing wages for trained people with those skill sets; IIRC, we generally don't. <br /><br />Anonymous said...<br /><br /> " how are colleges different from other investments with high start-up costs and long lead-times?"<br /><br />First, the lead times are far longer; to get established would probably mean decades. Second, the university wouldn't make much of a profit. And as for prestige, that's something which would also develop (or not) over decades.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-13534113298653141022011-04-20T12:31:35.752-04:002011-04-20T12:31:35.752-04:00" universities require such huge initial inve..." universities require such huge initial investments, and take so long to pay off, that building them is not feasible for the private sector."<br /><br />how are colleges different from other investments with high start-up costs and long lead-times?<br /><br />also, is it really true prestige is not replicable? for enough money, you could hire all the best academics and immediately get the staff that create the prestige...right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-70463731632184571772011-04-19T20:54:47.645-04:002011-04-19T20:54:47.645-04:00From what I can tell the rise in tuition costs com...From what I can tell the rise in tuition costs comes almost exclusively from public universities which means it's probably due to states cutting budgets for higher ed more than anything.<br /><br />Here in California we just opened a new UC but tuition costs have increased even more rapidly since, so I don't think it's a supply/demand issue.<br /><br />I wrote a more detailed response here:<br />http://cantwinforlosing.com/2011/04/19/college-too-expensive-blame-the-states/David Bishophttp://www.cantwinforlosing.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-11123066159044228522011-04-19T11:35:16.602-04:002011-04-19T11:35:16.602-04:00"foreign students are largely subsidized by t..."foreign students are largely subsidized by their governments"<br /><br />and the evidence for that is...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-85572166519892495322011-04-18T19:38:18.967-04:002011-04-18T19:38:18.967-04:00Hypothesis of the day:
The lack of candidates to ...Hypothesis of the day:<br /><br />The lack of candidates to fill all those so-called "good jobs" out there isn't a result of not enough educated graduates, it's a result of not enough U.S. citizens choosing majors that will give them the skills needed for the jobs that do exist. Very few of the "best and brightest" from India and China are coming to the U.S. to study psychology, political science or english.A.K. Anselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14849329951808383265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-4519278452256096172011-04-17T10:57:53.491-04:002011-04-17T10:57:53.491-04:00Lots of your reasoning is wrong, Noah, but I'd...Lots of your reasoning is wrong, Noah, but I'd agree with your conclusion, that we could use a nationalized university system.<br /><br />What we used to have was more like that.<br /><br />Then along came Ronald Reagan, who didn't want universities to be socialist institutions, but wanted them to run like businesses. The rest is the history of the past 30 years.<br /><br />The bulk of grad students since then have been rich or foreign, since poor US citizens could no longer afford it, while foreign students are largely subsidized by their governments. It wasn't that way before Reagan, when we saw educating our own citizens as a worthwhile investment.<br /><br />Your arguments about human capital, though, I don't agree with at all. We don't have enough university jobs for graduates now, and businesses don't value human capital like they used to - technological capital is just cheaper. The rule for hiring hasn't been best qualified for well more than a decade - it's been best fit - qualified but inexpensive. That's because of the extent to which technology makes up the difference in productivity. I know you don't buy that, but it's true.<br /><br />Untaxed profits discourage capital investment, and technology devalues human capital investment relative to the already lower cost of equivalently productive technological capital. We're past a tipping point on both counts.<br /><br />Consider: what's the purpose of robotics? To replace human labor. That's most obvious for automation, but it's true of technologies which don't replace but just augment human labor as well. Better machines, fewer people needed, to do the same amount of productive work.<br /><br />So we need to nationalize a lot more than just universities. There are no longer sufficient market incentives to keep enough of our population viably employed, nor is wealth sufficiently well distributed for it anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-76264821719170719422011-04-17T10:54:09.436-04:002011-04-17T10:54:09.436-04:00you have to fix the broken public education at the...you have to fix the broken public education at the elementary level first, before you start talking enrolling more at the university level: http://www.angrybearblog.com/2011/04/guest-post-crisis-in-public.htmlrjshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15681812432224138582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-46105133665287921212011-04-17T08:34:49.817-04:002011-04-17T08:34:49.817-04:00Sorry for the huge number of typos in that comment...Sorry for the huge number of typos in that comment - running out door to Sunday School. Haste makes waste. Should teach kids that today. Now using time for this. So inefficient ....eRobinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-5283919898357644212011-04-17T08:32:27.246-04:002011-04-17T08:32:27.246-04:00My son is about to head off to Muhlenberg, which w...My son is about to head off to Muhlenberg, which we could just barely afford b/c of generous scholarships and grants. Every other school, including the state school he applied to were out of reach. He knows so many kids that can't go to college b/c of cost or who are going to a two-year school for the same reason. (nothing necessarily wrong with that second option) During the process of applying to schools and waiting to hear from them, we have talked about the idea of national universites that would do what you're talking about. I just fwd'd him this article as an example of really well-constructed persuasive essay. He's going to flip for the topic. Thanks for writing it.<br /><br />Also, when we talked about the idea of national universities, we also took dreamed about using all the vacant factories and mills all over the country. The ones in Amsterdam, NY are particularly painful to me since my family is from there, but, of course, they exist throughout the country. I think that's why you meant by "no shortage of land". That point can't be stressed enough. Those empty factories crush communities' souls.<br /><br />Last - re: no political will. There used to be no political will for destroying our public education system and now we're on the threshold of that happening. Start now and in thirty years, we may have an affordable, quality university in Amsterdam, NY. It's worth a try.eRobinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-70766579616629827342011-04-17T07:41:15.205-04:002011-04-17T07:41:15.205-04:00We have a bunch of governors, like Mitch Daniels w...We have a bunch of governors, like Mitch Daniels who want to privatize everything from toll roads to kindergarten. Gov Daniels is on Indiana TV stations promoting the for profit Western Governor's University and paying Indiana tax dollars for students to go online rather than fully funding the expansion of community colleges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-41189668555345882902011-04-17T01:32:46.172-04:002011-04-17T01:32:46.172-04:00I agree that more, cheap schools would be better. ...I agree that more, cheap schools would be better. However, I stopped reading when I came to your part about West Point. National universities are not constitutional. West Point is an exception because it educates the armed forces. Maybe your idea can be passed under the commerce, like the national highway and railroads? Yet states have already provide this so to wrestle it from them is dubious - the University of California system would be very unhappy to compete with a University of the United States system. I think the better idea is to throw money at states earmarked for university-level education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-75396969946143060182011-04-16T23:02:13.114-04:002011-04-16T23:02:13.114-04:00This a remarkably simple point but an underemphasi...This a remarkably simple point but an underemphasized one. Funding a huge push for new universities seems like a great idea, but John Bound would argue that kids don't seem to be responding realistically to current costs and benefits. The rise in the value of the college-HS wage gap has generally outpaced that of tuition but college enrollment has been pretty stagnant.Jason Kerwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11446743337803791862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-31907361587088201152011-04-16T22:33:27.932-04:002011-04-16T22:33:27.932-04:00these national universities are often very high-qu...<i>these national universities are often very high-quality. Why not us?</i><br /><br />Short simple answer. No political will. We are in austerity mode, with basic education getting cut in many states. In my MI community, teachers just got hit with a 10% pay cut. AZ is far worse.<br /><br />Another aspect is that reactionaries really don't like education, and they have way too much political clout.<br /><br />You have a great idea, but it's DOA.<br /><br />Cheers!<br />JzBJazzbumpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07337490817307473659noreply@blogger.com