tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post5509249668823984145..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Sci-jackingNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-20084681881018300892015-01-29T03:26:02.503-05:002015-01-29T03:26:02.503-05:00Simulations are simulating something, necessarily ...Simulations are simulating something, necessarily simulations require an original to copy. Therefore your explanation requires an extra step to explain that guy's existence, even if his point is facetious and untrue. I suppose when you introduced God into the explanation it was really a moot point to bring up anybody's razor. Namednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-2671334104875530462015-01-28T15:54:45.532-05:002015-01-28T15:54:45.532-05:00But the term free markets is an oxymoron. If the p...But the term free markets is an oxymoron. If the purpose of law is to expand freedom (See Endnote 1, page 24, http://www.biologyoflaw.org/Purpose/PurposeLaw.pdf) then the economic problem of regulated markets is clearly rooted in customs of law, accounting, and politics. Joe Leotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292763300917387201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-26075559220137484422015-01-23T21:59:28.606-05:002015-01-23T21:59:28.606-05:00One other point, then I'll shut-up: the "...One other point, then I'll shut-up: the "stupid-internet-Austrian" view that economics is all deduction and no empirical stuff is a misreading of Mises, who actually used "economics" to mean what most economists nowadays mean by "economic theory," lumping what most people nowadays call "applied economics" into what he called "history." So, Hey Presto! "Economics" is all deduction. In fact Mises' thinking was no different from that of many modern economists. Indeed, I can think of quite a few of the latter (New Classical types, mainly) whose a-priorism goes a lot further than Mises' ever did. (The man knew his economic history pretty well after all, though he had not a shred of patience for the merest sort of statistics, let alone what we call econometrics.)<br /><br />So, again, when Boettke and other non-stupid-internet-Austrians do empirical work, they aren't deviating from anything. They have their Austrian economics right. The ultra-praxeologist wannabes who claim that empirical evidence is of no account don't. George Selginhttp://www.cato.org/people/george-selginnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-36005729992335860222015-01-23T21:46:06.317-05:002015-01-23T21:46:06.317-05:00"Now, there are some self-described Austrians..."Now, there are some self-described Austrians who do not perfectly fit the description above - they have partially embraced the methods of mainstream economics. But this seems like saying that because not all self-described communists believe in pure orthodox Marxism, communism is no longer to be identified with Marxism. "Austrians for mainstream economic methods" sounds to me a little bit like "Jews for Jesus."<br /><br />This is a very poor analogy. It amounts to treating the hacks as the "real thing," and real economists who deserve more respectable consideration, from Mises and Hayek themselves (and their predecessors from Menger onwards, for that matter) as the "deviants" from the Austrian School. <br /><br />I suppose you can blame these actual scholars for the fact that the school, unlike most others, has a huge popular following, and one that's all too ready to play economist on the internet and elsewhere. But really, suppose every Noah Smith fan started calling himself a Noah-Smithian and blogging all sorts of sketchy pseudo pseudo-Noahpinion stuff about how big government is just oh so groovy, in allcaps and such. Would you be happy to have people start calling them the "Real" Noahs, and calling you a "deviant"? I think not!<br /><br />So how about stopping this business of tarring the whole Austrian School, which has a long and very fine tradition behind it, with that big sloppy brush of yours, and stick to referring your complaints to specific self-styled Austrians or websites or whatever. You may then be surprised to see how many real Austrians agree with at least some of your criticisms.<br /><br />And read more Vernon Smith while your at it: he's a huge Hayek fan and very keen on free markets.George Selginhttp://www.cato.org/people/george-selginnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-1173576262788489962015-01-21T13:42:22.905-05:002015-01-21T13:42:22.905-05:00Although attention has moved away from Hayek and L...Although attention has moved away from Hayek and Laffer, and toward Krugman and Stiglitz, it does not follow that economics has started to lean left. The deregulation and tax cuts advocated by the conservatives were implemented almost exactly as prescribed, and the results were almost the exact opposite of the conservative predictions. <br /><br />The Austrians responded to the observations by banishing economic models from their textbooks, and insisting that the economy is so complex that it cannot be measured, (or even understood) by non-Austrians. While DeLong and Thoma (etc.) have tried to wallpaper their blogs with graphs, the pronouncements of the Mises Institute increasingly resemble a newsletter from a cult: They praise those who repeat their sacred Catechism, and shun those who fall outside the faith.<br /><br />When Communism failed, the far-left school of economics moved back to the center: Instead of advocating government control of goods and services, they now advocate bank regulation and Pigovian taxes. <br /><br />But when the far-right school of economics failed, they simply moved further out. Instead of advocating (yet) more tax cuts and deregulation, they now advocate eliminating the social safety net and voting rights. <br /><br />The only surprising thing is that the national discussion has been moved so far to the right that these now seem like mainstream ideas. In the 1960's it was an article of faith that the minimum wage created jobs. Today, even NPR blandly asserts that a minimum wage hike will "cost" jobs. Like other parts of the Mises doctrine, it has been repeated so many times that it is now accepted without proof. When Robert Reich or Dean Baker raise their hand to disagree, the media demands proof.<br /><br />And it hardly matters how much proof they provide: Their economic models are dismissed as "left-leaning liberal elite soy-latte Communism" by people who wouldn't know an economic model from a model railroad.<br /><br />When I studied economics (back when Adam Smith was just "That Scottish kid") it was commonly accepted that the middle class created jobs. If I try to mention this in a meeting, I am shouted down by people who literally believe the phrase "job creators".<br /><br />Have I moved left, or did everyone else move right?Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-81229044658756346422015-01-18T21:11:43.857-05:002015-01-18T21:11:43.857-05:00Noah,
As usual this is a thought provoking po...Noah, <br /><br /> As usual this is a thought provoking post. <br /><br /> I've always found the popularity of "Austrian" econ a bit peculiar. I can't think of any other fringe group of scholars from another discipline that have so many lay enthusiasts among bloggers, commenters and in the think tank certain. In my own discipline, sociology, we have various marxists, feminists and even post-modern schools of thought that lie at the fringes of the discipline but they don't have a large fanbase (for want of a better term) outside of academia. <br /><br /> With that being said, I think its important to differentiate the modal internet "Austrian" from an academic "Austrian". So far as I can tell, the econ and related blogosphere is full of ostensibly "Austrian" bloggers and commenters who have only a slight familiarity with Austrian theory and almost no knowledge of the rest of social science. <br /><br /> I think there is some value is having odd-ball, outlier, fringe, heterodox or (insert other adjective) schools of thought within a discipline. I don't tend to find myself in full-on agreement with some of the Marxist and Feminist authors that I've read, but I think I'm better off for engaging with their ideas. <br /><br /> "Austrian Econ", as you and I both understand it, is basically against empirical analysis in favor of logical deduction. I find it really hard to have a conversation or even begin to seriously engage with these types of schools of thought. It reminds me, to some extent, of ethnomethodology or post-modernism. Unlike other fringe or outlier ways of thinking I don't find any value in those schools (at least for my purposes). <br /><br /> You are correct in that sociology has succumbed to left-wing activism. For my PhD I was given the choice of forming a human shield around a planned parenthood facility or starting a community garden in a poor neighborhood. Instead, I choose to form a human shield around some non-GMO beets that guerilla gardeners had planted in an office park as a way of reclaiming public space from neoliberalism. Thank god sociologists don't have to do research, publish books and papers, attend conferences or teach classes. <br /><br />Of course that last paragraph is trolling, but I think your characterizations of of sociology (or really anything other than econ) is a bit silly. Your alma mater has a particularity strong sociology program- maybe you can walk down the hall to see what they are doing in the soc dept if you ever go back for a visit. <br /><br />Thanks again for the post! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-57866899068574525042015-01-17T09:58:00.084-05:002015-01-17T09:58:00.084-05:00Noah: "This is natural, since the right want...Noah: "This is natural, since the right wants free markets (well, in most ways), and econ treats free markets as natural outcomes."<br /><br />No, the right wants money and hierarchy, and doesn't give a flying f*ck about free markets, save as those get them what they want.<br /><br />Look on the right, and see just how much they love government money, and government rules which protect their interest.<br /><br />As for 'sci-jacking', the idea that free markets are natural outcomes is a huge political thing, and that's on top of the idea that something 'natural' is to be preferred.<br /><br /><br />Here's a question - it's not honestly deniable by any informed expert that austerity was damaging.<br />If the austerians had had their way six years ago, we might not be talking about the '*Lesser* Depression'.<br /><br />And the combination of US austerity with EU austerity might have produced some horrors on a scale with the 20th century. A while back, a professor (Lucas? Conchrane? ) commented that people would openly gigle back in the early 80's when somebody presented Keynesian work.<br /><br />Who has been giggling at Lucas and Cochane when they present work?<br /><br />Who calls 'liar!' at the inflationistas?<br />Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-66698698780013161812015-01-17T09:35:00.599-05:002015-01-17T09:35:00.599-05:00"Did you see the links to the "activist ..."Did you see the links to the "activist anthropology" programs?"<br /><br />If we use the standard of 'activist X' to decide whether or not a field X is political, then economics would lead the pack.<br /><br />The difference is that they publish op-eds (many disguised as analyses), rather than march in the streets.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-35669368144450639742015-01-14T19:37:21.273-05:002015-01-14T19:37:21.273-05:00But you do agree with the article that the Fed bou...But you do agree with the article that the Fed bought the economics profession?Vincent Catehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06502618776820144289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-33396217313249222332015-01-14T14:01:17.938-05:002015-01-14T14:01:17.938-05:00The low cost of capital we (the US govt) face, dec...The low cost of capital we (the US govt) face, decoupled from the ability to deliver significant value to citizens, insufficiently incentivizes public sector prudence. From this follows the current political dynamics on the right - a plutocratic GOP focused on using prudence rhetorically as a means to advance an aggressive austerity. It has become difficult for anyone on the right to deliver an argument that the prescriptive value of a social program exceeds its cost in the face of an ideology that dismisses any and all government programs as worthless or at best less efficient than their private sector equivalent - thus the policy ideas and theoretical contributions have suffered greatly. Charter schools and other such experimental methods introducing choice to help reform bureaucracies are promising but about all I can think of for positives.that_guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991208477060948381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-42812858131482365842015-01-13T13:59:50.083-05:002015-01-13T13:59:50.083-05:00Thanks, fixed!Thanks, fixed!Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-9866227414193066062015-01-13T08:15:45.452-05:002015-01-13T08:15:45.452-05:00I thought it was funny that Boettke cited Elinor O...<i>I thought it was funny that Boettke cited Elinor Ostrom... and Vernon Smith, who did the original Bubble Experiments, as "more market oriented thinkers".</i><br /><br />Smith sounds pretty market oriented <a href="http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/07/19/please-no-more-government-spending.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, wouldn't you agree?<br /><br />[ From "Please, No More Government Spending!" by Vernon Smith, <i>The Daily Beast</i>, July 19, 2010 ]<br /><br />"Our best shot at increasing employment and output is to reduce business taxes and the cost of creating new start-up companies. Don’t subsidize them; just reduce their taxes even as they become larger; also reduce any unnecessary impediments to their formation."John Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-8564248862174925882015-01-13T05:51:28.035-05:002015-01-13T05:51:28.035-05:00Hi,
The "complimentary" piece in your up...Hi,<br />The "complimentary" piece in your update has been posted by a certain Chris Dillow and NOT Chris Blattman. Just wanted to point that out.<br />Dillow's bio is here: http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2005/11/the_normblog_pr_1.htmlGenPseudPutterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486711690537860404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-67629229267263087912015-01-12T18:09:47.729-05:002015-01-12T18:09:47.729-05:00George Selgin's response to your 9-11 Brain Wo...George Selgin's response to your 9-11 Brain Worm piece. Thoughts?<br /><br />http://www.freebanking.org/2015/01/11/something-nice-about-austrian-economics/John Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-23876035698350401662015-01-12T17:07:05.014-05:002015-01-12T17:07:05.014-05:00Quacks?Quacks?Jim Birchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07415199338332642534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-9528005797190299992015-01-12T14:15:53.487-05:002015-01-12T14:15:53.487-05:00The inflation rate in Brazil was recorded at 6.41 ...The inflation rate in Brazil was recorded at 6.41 percent in December of 2014. Inflation Rate in Brazil averaged 388.97 percent from 1980 until 2014, reaching an all time high of 6821.31 percent in April of 1990 and a record low of 1.65 percent in December of 1998. Inflation Rate in Brazil is reported by the Instituto Brasileiro de Geografia e Estatística (IBGE)12 gener de 2015, 10:43<br />The inflation rate in Russia was recorded at 11.40 percent in December of 2014. Inflation Rate in Russia averaged 143.16 percent from 1991 until 2014, reaching an all time high of 2333.30 percent in December of 1992 and a record low of 3.60 percent in April of 2012. Inflation Rate in Russia is reported by the Federal State Statistics Service<br /><br />The inflation rate in Egypt was recorded at 10.13 percent in December of 2014. Inflation Rate in Egypt averaged 8.93 percent from 1958 until 2014, reaching an all time high of 35.10 percent in June of 1986 and a record low of -4.20 percent in August of 1962. Inflation Rate in Egypt is reported by the Central Bank of Egypt.stealioningnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-11154420513119879232015-01-12T11:51:32.607-05:002015-01-12T11:51:32.607-05:00Doing the numbers requires a model. The model is d...Doing the numbers requires a model. The model is derived as a deduction from some stated axioms or as an abstraction from observed social customs. In any case an economist must be an anthropologist operating within a specialty. Efforts to be objective are necessary yet impossible because the model is a bias which may be a poor fit for the underlying reality. Economists do not have models independent of assumptions about human nature or observations of human culture with significant abstraction from the complex political-economy.Joe Leotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292763300917387201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-74359651287523817442015-01-12T04:28:09.488-05:002015-01-12T04:28:09.488-05:00" but economists, in the main, seem to have d..." but economists, in the main, seem to have done an admirable job of staying as politically neutral as humanly possible."<br /><br />You either mean this in which case you are an epic idiot or the biggest troll of all time! Either way I nearly died laughing so that can't be bad :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-8080954446557012762015-01-12T01:33:13.978-05:002015-01-12T01:33:13.978-05:00The Chris Blattman link is to stumbling and mumbli...The Chris Blattman link is to stumbling and mumbling and I could not see on it any further links to anything by C Blattman.<br /><br />First do the numbers and then from the numbers do policy or first do the policy and then ignore the numbers or make the numbers best fit to the policy. Objectivity is in the former but not the latter method. "Science" is in the former but "politics" in the latter. In your b article the latter I think was said to lead to mistakes. It would be an illustration of the baneful effects of sci-jacking.<br /><br />Example could be ignoring standard analysts like the Atlanta Fed who are numbers men. They give the reasons and numbers on decline in Labour Force Participation but are ignored by some because it does not fit the presentation that there are no such persons as baby boomers impacting on the rate. Policy mistakes by ignoring such numbers men are inevitable. amnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-52410738173620369312015-01-11T23:45:14.045-05:002015-01-11T23:45:14.045-05:00They are quarks?They are quarks?rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-10833769440952165362015-01-11T23:44:38.586-05:002015-01-11T23:44:38.586-05:00gamorejon,
For what it is worth, Hayek wrote favo...gamorejon,<br /><br />For what it is worth, Hayek wrote favorably about Goedel, although arguably he was not a "true believer in praxeology," with that being a matter of some serious dispute among Austrian economists.rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-75900504620758633492015-01-11T22:54:24.708-05:002015-01-11T22:54:24.708-05:00The conservative scijackers seem to me to have los...The conservative scijackers seem to me to have lost the physics property of charm too.<br /><br />They aren't the coolest bunch.Jim Birchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07415199338332642534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-8853148140203014822015-01-11T21:43:20.041-05:002015-01-11T21:43:20.041-05:00Apparently the word "content" has some s...Apparently the word "content" has some special meaning to you. The question is whether the axioms are in fact self-evident truths, and whether the theorems follow from the axioms. In geometry, generally yes, in praxeology, generally no. The human mind appears to have a nearly universal tendency to accept geometry as a coherent body of knowledge, but it does not appear to have a universal tendency to accept praxeology or orthodox economics as a coherent body of knowledge.Joe Leotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292763300917387201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-15579590184341359652015-01-11T21:39:54.346-05:002015-01-11T21:39:54.346-05:00I've always wondered what true believers of pr...I've always wondered what true believers of praxeology think about Goedel.gamorejonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-68082148409102004922015-01-11T21:32:57.625-05:002015-01-11T21:32:57.625-05:00Maybe FSU is special, but there were a number of w...Maybe FSU is special, but there were a number of wealthy right-wingers paying for faculty well before the Kochs. The Kochs just have national name recogition. I doubt this is all that rare, and I doubt there are a whole lot (or any) billionaire communists out there to balance things out.gmorejonnoreply@blogger.com