tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post7512673822698019242..comments2024-03-18T07:04:18.975-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Intelligence boosts for everyone!Noah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger99125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-70504004546866713572013-10-30T17:43:02.355-04:002013-10-30T17:43:02.355-04:00I consider myself an extreme realist. But realism ...I consider myself an extreme realist. But realism and optimism don't always conflict, IMHO.<br /><br /><i>Human biodiversity at both the individual and population level are a tremendous challenge to anyone who wants to maintain (as I am sure you do) our liberal, democratic ideals and institutions, including, above all, the ideal of human equality.</i><br /><br />Yes, it is a huge challenge.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-18957636758862489532013-10-29T23:15:01.407-04:002013-10-29T23:15:01.407-04:00Noah writes: "I define "academic-racism&...Noah writes: "I define "academic-racism" by a focus on ethnicity as a determinant of abilities, not by a belief in genetic determinants of ability."<br /><br />But ethnicity and genetics are all mixed up together. Human biodiversity at both the individual and population level are a tremendous challenge to anyone who wants to maintain (as I am sure you do) our liberal, democratic ideals and institutions, including, above all, the ideal of human equality. Your goody-two shoes approach is both naive and intellectually cowardly in my judgment. There is no use hiding your head in the sand. Realism is the first desideratum of moral responsibility in this world. Anything less is defeatism. Luke Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11290760894780619646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-58829888515234240102013-06-12T06:33:57.065-04:002013-06-12T06:33:57.065-04:00The word racist connotates hatred or irrationality...The word racist connotates hatred or irrationality. You should be wary of the way you recklessly throw around that word, Mr. Economist derp-man. Lone Cicadanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-16838908662659437962013-04-02T12:54:54.199-04:002013-04-02T12:54:54.199-04:00"Actually I think it does. Purging the academ..."Actually I think it does. Purging the academic-racists will only help the cause of people who want to study intelligence for purely scientific motives. And it won't hurt the science one bit. So I'm all for conducting this purge."<br />__________<br /><br />Purging the real-business cycle theorists will only help the cause of people who want to study economics for purely scientific motives. And it won't hurt the science one bit. So I'm all for conducting this purge.<br /><br />Purging the relativists will only help the cause of people who want to study physics for purely scientific motives. And it won't hurt the science one bit. So I'm all for conducting this purge.<br /><br />Purging the mendelians will only help the cause fo people who want to study agriculture for purely scientific motives. And it won't hurt the science one bit. So I'm all for conducting this purge.<br /><br />Are you wiser now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-78401892745792589022013-04-02T12:50:31.419-04:002013-04-02T12:50:31.419-04:00"But look...why should anyone care about &quo..."But look...why should anyone care about "group differences"?<br /><br />Individual differences are the ones that are important.<br /><br />Here's what I mean. Suppose Koreans have, on average, 10 more IQ points than Irish people. Who gives a fuck? How is that fact useful? What are the policy conclusions? "<br /><br />This is more defensible than the usual stuff you publish on this topic, but it is extremely important for development policy.<br />If you know that Africans are one std. dev below Europe and you also know that they're malnourished, optimal on-the-ground policy varies between giving them food and giving them capital.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-69702515766669838422013-03-30T19:26:37.142-04:002013-03-30T19:26:37.142-04:00People need to learn more about computer science, ...People need to learn more about computer science, there are things there that could change their entire worldview. In about 1935, a number of people, including Alan Turing and Emil Post, proved that basically anyone who can read, write and follow written instructions could think any thought that it is possible for anyone to think. When you have achieved this capability, you have experienced a "singularity event". Many ten-year-olds can do it, some college graduates never make it to that level.<br /><br />Put another way and abusing both the brain and Thomas Edison, "intelligence is 10% hardware and 90% software." What makes for the so-called racial difference in intelligence is mostly not due to neurogenetic factors but to cultural attitudes towards studying hard and test-taking skills.<br /><br />If you want to be smart, hang around with smart people and make them teach you the same approaches to problem solving that they use; including their tricks and shortcuts. Read George Polya's great little book about heuristics, "How to Solve It".<br /><br />If you want to change the world, give every child a jailbroken solar-powered smartphone and an unlimited data account. Many of them will spend all their time researching how to be cool instead of how to be smart, but more than you think will learn more than you can imagine.<br /><br />By the way, the van Vogt story with the high-IQ protagonist was probably "Asylum". His natural IQ was actually 1200, but compared to the lesser races of Klugg (IQ 250) and Lennel (IQ 400) and his newspaperman persona with IQ 112, he was indeed godlike. And space vampires!Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14690189901710907938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-67464775625175179182013-03-19T13:29:44.129-04:002013-03-19T13:29:44.129-04:00Economic status remains the strongest predictor of...Economic status remains the strongest predictor of measured intelligence. The best thing a society can do is improve living conditions for it's members. Even now cities vary in the amount of lead the average child consumes and starvation and disease are still endemic. The most effective step is still the removal of intelligence degradators rather than genetic or medical interventions. <br /><br />Others have addressed the ambiguities about intelligence: creativity, effectiveness, persuasiveness and social intelligence, mental stability, grasp of detail or overall picture, memory and deep understanding are all quite different intelligences that influence how happy and useful a person is. Remember that brains are a complex network many sub-brains with interacting and conflicting characteristics- an eagle has spectacular visual processing but it's still a bird brain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-42876212290886467662013-03-02T06:52:49.803-05:002013-03-02T06:52:49.803-05:00And note, almost never is the Ph.D. in any subject...And note, almost never is the Ph.D. in any subject even vaguely related to the claims they make. By contrast, I have yet to meet a human geneticist (and I've met quite a few, since my father is one) who thought there was any genetic basis for race. Sure there are groups (though fewer and fewer) that have been isolated for the 10's of thousands of years it takes to make any noticeable genetic changes and sure they have specific genetic profiles that are slightly different than others. But the groupings we consider to make up different 'races' cover huge and extremely genetically diverse populations. <br /><br />Actually, the problem of academic racists is a mini-version of one of the chief problems with the idea that raising IQ is a good thing or that it would improve people's lives: Why do people believe someone who's completely ignorant of a subject just because he has a Ph.D. in another subject? Because they think he's 'smart'. Intelligence + Ignorance + Arrogance = a pretty good definition of stupidity in my book.Sarahhttp://www.eclectopedia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-54389873953973906662013-02-27T18:07:11.583-05:002013-02-27T18:07:11.583-05:00"There's plenty of reason to believe that..."There's plenty of reason to believe that any genetic trait that just simply makes someone smarter would have dominated the competition and thus the "dumber" alleles or mutations would have died out."<br /><br />Actually no: you're forgetting that there is genetic load (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_load). The vast majority of variations are slightly detrimental. One third of our genes are actively expressed on the brain. So, if you could exchange less frequent variations for the most frequent ones it is almost certain that it would not result in loss of function -- au contraire, mon frère.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-31385228040545029502013-02-27T17:21:05.425-05:002013-02-27T17:21:05.425-05:00I'm all for genetic research, but this is a re...I'm all for genetic research, but this is a really bad way to go about improving intelligence. The cyborg thing is a much better and faster route. <br /><br />First of all, assuming that you can even find genetic markers that correlate with cognitive abilities and isolate alleles or other mutations that code for improved ability, you still have the problem of identifying the trade-offs. There's plenty of reason to believe that any genetic trait that just simply makes someone smarter would have dominated the competition and thus the "dumber" alleles or mutations would have died out. If there is remaining genetic diversity in cognitive tasks, it is either there because there's an associated cost that isn't always worth paying, or because it is such a recent development it hasn't had a chance to take over.<br /><br />If it's the former, then you don't want to just blindly give every kid the smart version, because you might be creating some huge weakness or additional burden on that generation. But then how do you decide who gets to be smart and who doesn't?<br /><br />If it's the latter, then you might be in business, but you still have to be careful that you aren't hurting future generations more by cutting off evolutionary pathways than you are helping them by adding "good" genes. In other words, whatever gene you switch everyone to might be a local maximum that can't be improved by incremental mutation, but the one that it was competing with could have been on a different slope, and thus had access to a much higher maximum. So you improve the intelligence of the next few generations at the expense of all the later ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-13770905580370892032013-02-27T13:34:50.443-05:002013-02-27T13:34:50.443-05:00It's worth a try, but my guess is that the stu...It's worth a try, but my guess is that the study will not find much. Rather than a magic "smart gene", there are probably hundreds of subtle genetic variations that each contribute a small amount to IQ variation.<br /><br />A more fruitful approach might be to study people with very specific types of abnormal intelligence, not general intelligence. Those cases could be due to a few small changes.<br />Maxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-55113394256588025992013-02-27T03:20:28.317-05:002013-02-27T03:20:28.317-05:00Noni
there is a whole book waiting in this sente...Noni <br /> there is a whole book waiting in this sentence:<br />"the building in of lots of excess capacity (overdesigning, as my electrical engineer dad made his watchword, which allows systems to still function well even under high loads) ... "<br /><br />Economists for some odd reason seem totally obsessed with efficiency. Resiliance is every bit as important. And competition is a bit ambivalent about that, which is significant in itself. Active monopolistic competition tends to increase productive capacity as no competitor can be certain what its ex-post market share will be (and there are some selective benefits to optimism and costs to pessimism.) But if competition results in concentration, (or alternatively with perfect competition and non-increasing returns to scale) then efficiency is the highest priority. Then there are issues with network effects and co-ordination when disparate technologies are used. And there are issues with the introduction of risky innovative technology (where it may not pay to be an innovator but may pay to be a copier - so nobody makes the first step). <br /><br />It seems to me to be much neglected - at least popular presentations of the issues are rare. I'm pretty agnostic about what the ideal solution might look like.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-17911738757904433432013-02-26T15:06:27.113-05:002013-02-26T15:06:27.113-05:00Even if that were the case, a 1-standard-deviation...Even if that were the case, a 1-standard-deviation difference is pretty small in terms of actually helping to isolate useful genes (Steve Hsu will verify this). That's why BGI is assembling a group of 5-standard-deviation individuals. The difference in z-scores for 5-s differences and 1-s differences is enormous, plus there are qualitative results you can isolate a lot better from the very-different samples. Essentially, looking genetically at Ashkenazi Jews will almost certainly be useless.<br /><br /><i>We really don't know yet, and certainly the ideological viligantism against people who research these controversial field doesn't help in dispelling our ignorance.</i><br /><br />Actually I think it does. Purging the academic-racists will only help the cause of people who want to study intelligence for purely scientific motives. And it won't hurt the science one bit. So I'm all for conducting this purge.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-19397240824702400592013-02-26T13:55:22.675-05:002013-02-26T13:55:22.675-05:00Up there I said:
"You really should stop tal...Up there I said:<br /><br />"You really should stop talking about this subject, it brings the worst out of you."<br /><br />Now you are saying:<br /><br />"But I wish they would shut up on their own, simply because they annoy me."<br /><br />Do you see what I mean?Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16882185097545470347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-30277516686471441972013-02-26T13:53:03.661-05:002013-02-26T13:53:03.661-05:00In the case of ashkenazi jews the difference may n...In the case of ashkenazi jews the difference may not be that small -- it could be as large as one standard variation. As you know, this translates as overepresantation on really high IQs (if it is a trait normally distributed). If so, research in this area could help understand better phenomena like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_chess_players, or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureates, orthis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann.<br /><br />We really don't know yet, and certainly the ideological viligantism against people who research these controversial field doesn't help in dispelling our ignorance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-77205635694041462472013-02-26T13:30:45.950-05:002013-02-26T13:30:45.950-05:00Maybe we would want to research the genes and the ...<i>Maybe we would want to research the genes and the historical-biological-whatever factors that made ashkenazy jews and east asians a little smarter than the european average?</i><br /><br />I mean...maybe. People would probably be interested in that. But it wouldn't really be useful. First of all, those differences are too small to be useful; to really find useful stuff, you need huge differences, which is why our best bet is to study super-genius individuals like Terence Tao, not large-group differences. Second of all, accidents of history can't be reproduced in real-time; if we're going to get intelligence boosts, reproducing historical selection pressures is NOT going to be how we do it. Instead, what we'll probably do is find some gene patterns that produce super-genius individuals, and "knock in" these patterns in humans.<br /><br /><i>Maybe we would want to know if evolution happenened in historical times? If it had an impact on the success of some groups on conquering other lands</i><br /><br />I guess some people will be curious about this, just like people are curious about how the Universe began or why dinosaurs turned into birds...<br /><br /><i>Maybe we just think it is a bad idea policing what other people want to know?</i><br /><br />Hey, calling someone an asshole or idiot is not the same as "policing" them...it's more in the category of "taunting"...<br /><br />I taunt academic-racists because they don't really seem interested in science at all - they seem mainly interested in politics, and preventing other ethnicities from sleeping with their daughters - but they keep claiming the mantle of noble truth-seeking scientific inquiry, which annoys me. I don't think society should force academic-racists to shut up. But I wish they would shut up on their own, simply because they annoy me.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-25600752896098062842013-02-26T13:19:12.335-05:002013-02-26T13:19:12.335-05:00Maybe we would want to research the genes and the ...Maybe we would want to research the genes and the historical-biological-whatever factors that made ashkenazy jews and east asians a little smarter than the european average? Maybe we would want to know if evolution happenened in historical times? If it had an impact on the success of some groups on conquering other lands (Bantus in Africa - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion -; Indo Europeans in Eurasia). Maybe we just think it is a bad idea policing what other people want to know? Maybe we just want to abide to the true liberal principle of: "live and let live". Or maybe we want to simply know the truth of the matter? Pick your choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-9283765425555697952013-02-26T13:09:41.893-05:002013-02-26T13:09:41.893-05:00But look...why should anyone care about "grou...But look...why should anyone care about "group differences"?<br /><br />Individual differences are the ones that are important.<br /><br />Here's what I mean. Suppose Koreans have, on average, 10 more IQ points than Irish people. Who gives a fuck? How is that fact useful? What are the policy conclusions? <br /><br />What I want is a technology that will let my friends do what Terence Tao can do. Knowing whether Koreans are on average a little bit smarter than Irish people doesn't really help me.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-53380618826203792702013-02-26T12:28:15.366-05:002013-02-26T12:28:15.366-05:00This PC vigilantism ("academic racist!")...This PC vigilantism ("academic racist!") against people who believes there are real differences between populational groups is like a 2013's farcical rerun of "shut down racist-biological-determinist E. O. Wilson" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson#Criticism_of_human_sociobiology) or "shut down racist-biological determinist Napoleon Chagnon" (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/hey_wait_a_minute/2000/10/jungle_fever.html).<br /><br />Grow up, please! This "liberal-minded" lynch mob is getting really stale...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-38285330985995128792013-02-26T11:06:58.895-05:002013-02-26T11:06:58.895-05:00derpderpNoah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-1660001250687807602013-02-26T09:42:42.210-05:002013-02-26T09:42:42.210-05:00Noah, there was no information on the e-mail that ...Noah, there was no information on the e-mail that wasn't on the links you provided. If the e-mail made you change your mind, that's a strong evidence that you didn't read the links, or didn't read them carefully.<br /><br />You really should stop talking about this subject, it brings the worst out of you.Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16882185097545470347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-24500102143355609312013-02-25T08:46:54.562-05:002013-02-25T08:46:54.562-05:00Ha, Smith thinks that selling out Hsu will cover h...Ha, Smith thinks that selling out Hsu will cover his tracks. Classic move. PC Police, Academic Racist Divisionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-64179897233759956572013-02-25T06:58:37.349-05:002013-02-25T06:58:37.349-05:00In which case we REALLY have to worry about IP. Wh...In which case we REALLY have to worry about IP. When are we going to finally admit that IP needs rethinking.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-29051753614559272422013-02-25T06:56:36.042-05:002013-02-25T06:56:36.042-05:00By the way it is quite possible that the nature of...By the way it is quite possible that the nature of slavery itself may have provided a selective force. But in that case it is not "race" that is the determining factor, but "descendents of slaves".reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-77692276443616909212013-02-25T06:50:45.009-05:002013-02-25T06:50:45.009-05:00I take out the garbage at home, and as measured no...I take out the garbage at home, and as measured normally, I'm pretty smart. It doesn't bother me, because it is not WHO I AM, it is just something that I'M DOING. The tendency to associate our jobs with our identity is the problem, and this I contend is something we got from our heirarchical animal heritage, it is not related to our quite orthogonal reasoning ability. We need to stop being apes. Maybe if we are smarter we will decide to grow up.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.com