tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post965215150591358795..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: A Nobel for economics that really worksNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-46324375893794686572012-10-18T19:58:24.659-04:002012-10-18T19:58:24.659-04:00You are calling engineering & architecture &qu...You are calling engineering & architecture "science".<br /><br />That is all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40948750207218324532012-10-17T19:28:28.455-04:002012-10-17T19:28:28.455-04:00If you want to find libertarians, you'll find ...If you want to find libertarians, you'll find more at libertarian blogs. The Tabarrok article (which is excellent, and I don't usually compliment libertarians) has at least two disparagers.<br /><br />But what I really want to know is if Pareto-optimality is an accurate description. It looked like it to me.<br /><br />And yet another question: what is the real synonymy for "Matching Theory"? It seems to go under a variety of names, and it is difficult to locate through wikipedia.Mike Hubenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01371469964446567690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-49257053762562606612012-10-17T16:59:46.420-04:002012-10-17T16:59:46.420-04:00I also think philosophers should claim Adam Smith,...<i>I also think philosophers should claim Adam Smith, mathematicians should claim John Nash, James Heckman, and others, historians should claim Robert Lucas (his B.A. was in history), and so on. I wonder if economics even exists as a field. Hmmm...</i><br /><br />And even if all those other fields did claim those people, it wouldn't mean economics doesn't exist as a distinct field! Every theoretical physicist could be claimed by math departments, and every experimental physicist by engineering departments. There's always discipline overlap.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-14323335636172348192012-10-17T16:57:29.018-04:002012-10-17T16:57:29.018-04:00Yep, I'm going to write a post about this. Bas...Yep, I'm going to write a post about this. Basically, I think of "math" as meaning different things in different situations, but in the case of economics, I essentially just equate it with "very precise language".Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-47527012297930340642012-10-17T16:50:03.482-04:002012-10-17T16:50:03.482-04:00Yeah, I haven't seen anyone disparage the priz...Yeah, I haven't seen anyone disparage the prize...got links??Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-54500581954670841302012-10-17T16:12:46.015-04:002012-10-17T16:12:46.015-04:00Wonks Anonymous —
I follow the principle, but I r...Wonks Anonymous —<br /><br />I follow the principle, but I really dislike Shapley's definition. <br /> <br />What if John never proposed to Mary because he was too shy, for example? What if he did propose to her and she wanted to marry him, but her parents pressured her into marrying someone else? <br /><br />As such I would modify Shapley's definition: mathematics is any abstract, linear argument carried out with precision. Those two qualifications make an awful lot of difference.<br /><br />That said, I convinced Noah yesterday to write about this, so I am interested to see what he has to say. Azizhttp://www.azizonomics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-1034637188180715072012-10-17T15:53:31.339-04:002012-10-17T15:53:31.339-04:00Lloyd Shapley unintentionally answers Aziz' qu...<a href="http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/10/rigor_math_and.html" rel="nofollow">Lloyd Shapley unintentionally answers Aziz' question</a>.Wonks Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-63031785258438306982012-10-17T14:56:19.196-04:002012-10-17T14:56:19.196-04:00Let us see, an algorithm that matches buyers and s...Let us see, an algorithm that matches buyers and sellers in markets without a Walrasian auctioneer. I wonder what that has to do with economics. Right! <br /><br />I also think philosophers should claim Adam Smith, mathematicians should claim John Nash, James Heckman, and others, historians should claim Robert Lucas (his B.A. was in history), and so on. I wonder if economics even exists as a field. Hmmm... CAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-41112453350102491972012-10-17T13:21:53.960-04:002012-10-17T13:21:53.960-04:00Maybe I'm reading the wrong blogs, but I got t...Maybe I'm reading the wrong blogs, but I got the impression from MR, EconLog and Greg Mankiw that the prize was richly deserved.Wonks Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-80674373666194201472012-10-17T11:33:22.591-04:002012-10-17T11:33:22.591-04:00I have read that matching theory can produce outco...I have read that matching theory can produce outcomes where no alternative will make the results better for all the participants.<br /><br />Isn't that a Pareto-optimal outcome?<br /><br />Is this indeed a centralized process that can produce Pareto-optimal outcomes?<br /><br />If so, that would account for a lot of the disparagement from conservatives/libertarians/market-fetishists.Mike Hubenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01371469964446567690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-79350816400466313642012-10-16T19:32:23.323-04:002012-10-16T19:32:23.323-04:00"Is it really economics?"
Exactly. Once..."Is it really economics?"<br /><br />Exactly. Once you find something testable, practically applicable that uses lots of math, you also find that it's only given a Nobel for economics because there are no Nobel prizes for math or computer science or cognitive psychology etc etc. Phil Koopnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-19302617292859450642012-10-16T15:30:10.702-04:002012-10-16T15:30:10.702-04:00I don't think it ruins the narrative. The Diam...I don't think it ruins the narrative. The Diamond/Mortensen/Pissarides model gives good results for certain (micro) features of the labor market, but when you try to combine it with business-cycle theory - usually just by slapping on some RBC-style technology shocks - it gives counterfactual results, as found by Robert Shimer. So I think if the model didn't give those good micro results, it wouldn't have won the prize.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-5170165631983501922012-10-16T13:52:59.132-04:002012-10-16T13:52:59.132-04:00Shhh. Don't ruin the narrative.Shhh. Don't ruin the narrative.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-38291176070616941212012-10-16T11:54:21.246-04:002012-10-16T11:54:21.246-04:00Sounds like you want to convince yourself and othe...<i>Sounds like you want to convince yourself and others. Is it really economics?</i><br /><br />Yes.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-48921489984887679472012-10-16T11:07:36.487-04:002012-10-16T11:07:36.487-04:00@Anonymous: YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!@Anonymous: YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!garik16https://www.blogger.com/profile/16998634419222562331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-19414181492883732412012-10-16T09:45:23.995-04:002012-10-16T09:45:23.995-04:00Even Prof. Shapley was surprised by the honour. “I...Even Prof. Shapley was surprised by the honour. “I consider myself a mathematician and the award is for economics,” he told the Associated Press on Monday. “I never, never in my life took a course in economics.”<br /><br />Yes sunglasses. Игры рынкаhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12001273098690387194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-65551739607747121922012-10-16T09:02:01.710-04:002012-10-16T09:02:01.710-04:00Actually, many mathematical results are qualitativ...Actually, many mathematical results are qualitative, not quantitative.<br /><br />As for when it is appropriate, the Einstein criterion still seems the best: "Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler.”aelhttp://nourl.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-8343701217924481032012-10-16T08:13:17.580-04:002012-10-16T08:13:17.580-04:00"The only macroeconomists selected for the pr..."The only macroeconomists selected for the prize in the past few years have been Chris Sims and Thomas Sargent - two hardcore empiricists whose work serves to illuminate the data limitations and huge error margins faced by macroeconomics."<br /><br />What about Peter Diamond, Dale Mortensen and Christopher Pissarides (the 2010 prize) for their work on search/matching models of the labour market. This is microfounded theoretical macro..JM Pindernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-11957295594253542062012-10-16T07:58:05.248-04:002012-10-16T07:58:05.248-04:00Nope! Matching models are *puts on sunglasses* all...Nope! Matching models are *puts on sunglasses* all chemistry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-26613688393421580142012-10-16T05:21:46.928-04:002012-10-16T05:21:46.928-04:00"so it is economics"
Sounds like you wa..."so it is economics"<br /><br />Sounds like you want to convince yourself and others. Is it really economics?Игры рынкаhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12001273098690387194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-2356827320674971102012-10-16T01:44:24.465-04:002012-10-16T01:44:24.465-04:00Socrates was the ultimate troll (IRL!), and he ask...Socrates was the ultimate troll (IRL!), and he asked more good questions than I ever will...<br /><br />Azizhttp://www.azizonomics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-88565250277022086972012-10-16T01:33:09.595-04:002012-10-16T01:33:09.595-04:00That's not trollish, that's a good questio...That's not trollish, that's a good question!Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-11032814023584358212012-10-16T01:31:36.915-04:002012-10-16T01:31:36.915-04:00Feeling trollish....
"There are cases in whi...Feeling trollish....<br /><br /><em>"There are cases in which economics works, in which it does discover "laws", and in which difficult math is absolutely essential."</em><br /><br />What do you mean by math? Thinking quantitatively? What is (are) the borderline (s) between math and nonmath? How do we differentiate between when we should use qualitative and quantitative reasoning? Azizhttp://www.azizonomics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-70397363454772399192012-10-16T00:58:21.307-04:002012-10-16T00:58:21.307-04:00On economic science. I think most of it is much m...On economic science. I think most of it is much more empirical than Roth's work. Economists doing obvious experiments or assessing natural experiments.<br /><br />Obviously I don't think a Nobel should go to typical work -- it should go to excellent work and developing a brilliant hypothesis which fits the data is better than testing an old hypothesis (or bit of conventional wisdom) and finding it fits, or doesn't.<br /><br />Also you know, Muhammad Yunis (PhD in Economics) could have gotten the economics prize not the peace prize (as Norman Borlaug (mr green revolution) could have gotten biology not peace). Yunis discovered an amazing stylized fact (almost a law if you will) that poor people repay tiny loans even if there is no cost effective way to enforce collection. Later work has demonstrated that it is possible for micro lenders to mess up (basically if there are at least two and they compete for maximum loan volume). Finding conditions under which micro lending works and in which it doesn't are equally interesting as science. I propose a joint economics nobel for empirical work in micro finance with one for Yunis (showing how to do it) and one for someone who showed how not to do it (plus Esther Duflo cause she works hard and gets fascinating results).Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14455788499385673507noreply@blogger.com