tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post138406594918561873..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Some more ways that racism is hurting black AmericansNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-57441179231796210712015-07-17T19:03:46.624-04:002015-07-17T19:03:46.624-04:00But they do both come from the same place, The Wel...But they do both come from the same place, The Welfare State enforcing poverty culture. Poor whites - and blacks - who vote Democrat are the ones voting against their own interests. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-54029461837652977032015-07-17T18:47:28.651-04:002015-07-17T18:47:28.651-04:00It's the "Welfare" State, not racism...It's the "Welfare" State, not racism, that's been hurting Black Americans for fifty years now. It isn't designed to help, it is intended to create poverty and dependency, in the guise of "compassion" all the while convincing the exploited that they are being helped, and increasing the State. LBJ knew exactly what he was doing. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-69099043825030669122014-04-19T02:37:37.202-04:002014-04-19T02:37:37.202-04:00Thanks for sharing this site, it is very informati...Thanks for sharing this site, it is very informative for the business accounting. Keep on continuing with this. I also provides this service visit the site.<a href="http://intouchaccountants.co.nz/" rel="nofollow"> Accounting</a> Intouch Accountants aims to provide an affordable, timely, clear and concise accounting service for small and medium businesses. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307301450488766339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-34556016020735973142014-04-14T13:18:47.108-04:002014-04-14T13:18:47.108-04:00"I am very liberal person... But let me also ..."I am very liberal person... But let me also take my fellow liberals to task on this too...<br />How come when we talk about poverty, we almost never talk about addressing the special problems of the rural white poor ? "<br /><br />Since when is this?Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-38350167164140516292014-04-12T14:27:25.227-04:002014-04-12T14:27:25.227-04:00Nice article. You should read Elizabeth Anderson&...Nice article. You should read Elizabeth Anderson's book The Imperative of Integration. She is exploring similar terrain.<br /><br />Also, take a look at Kevin Drum's work on environmental lead and its decline as a key part of the explanation of declining crime rates. It may sound crazy, but the statistical correlation is uncanny, and worth exploring.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00063387734818192377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-26034085750051473922014-04-12T07:26:18.815-04:002014-04-12T07:26:18.815-04:00I thought this post was going to be about ways tha...I thought this post was going to be about ways that racism hurts black americans instead of ways that black americans happen to have problems that others do not. William Wilberfangnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-66437043554936342732014-04-12T01:45:34.694-04:002014-04-12T01:45:34.694-04:00I love to discuss with you American liberals becau...I love to discuss with you American liberals because you are so open minded and "neoliberal" and reasonable. <br /><br />:-) <br /><br />Here in Brazil people would be calling me names and shouting "racist" or worse. I love you guys and think you are a - maybe the only "big", multicultural one - lmodel of a an Open Society. I hope your country continue to be this model of Popperian evolution that it has proven to be since 1776. <br /><br />Keep doing the good work and learning, and teaching! We are watching - and hoping to be as successful as - you! <br /><br />:-)<br /><br />ByeUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17638760847613712826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-79484430514970870212014-04-12T00:55:22.474-04:002014-04-12T00:55:22.474-04:00Indeed. I think that considering these problems fr...Indeed. I think that considering these problems from a perspective of property rights, zoning, mortgage regulations, etc. would be more productive at this point in time. I honestly don't have much more to add, just wanted to mostly thank you for the link.<br /><br />Also, I deleted the above for grammar reasons, only when I realized I couldn't edit my comment. Weird.BulldogBouldererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802038954836060765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-41177175883437940602014-04-12T00:53:41.635-04:002014-04-12T00:53:41.635-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.BulldogBouldererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802038954836060765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-43187020699537846212014-04-12T00:26:10.216-04:002014-04-12T00:26:10.216-04:00Winston,
You should read Kevin Williamson's ar...Winston,<br />You should read Kevin Williamson's article in National Review about poverty in Appalachia before you start making generalizations about conservatives. Douglas B. Levenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07916420802096618688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-72074578887727201982014-04-11T22:43:05.213-04:002014-04-11T22:43:05.213-04:00(Cont.) The other solution was was exposed by Karl...(Cont.) The other solution was was exposed by Karl Smith, an American black intelectual who understands that land restrictions are pernicious better than most of you liberals:<br /><br />http://equitablegrowth.org/2014/02/04/land-rather-than-capital-the-long-run-oppressor-of-the-workers/<br /><br />Irreproducibility and inheritance are the essential features of land in classical economics. Thus, the story here isn’t so much about capital, but about land in the 21st century<br /><br />-Anônimo Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17638760847613712826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-19456564146733846052014-04-11T22:32:50.271-04:002014-04-11T22:32:50.271-04:00Yet, in communities where the police force and jud...Yet, in communities where the police force and judicial system are overwhelmingly represented by African Americans, there still exists violent crime rates in those communities at rates unseen in any other Western society/community. <br /><br />Here is the link to the 2011 FBI Uniform Crime reports:<br /><br />http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43<br /><br />I don't get how your police discrimination account can explain the disproportionate representation of blacks in virtually every violent crime category. So wait, a black male doesn't trust calling the police, so he goes out and is disproportionately likely to commit rape, rob a store, etc.? Interestingly, the only crimes included in the report where blacks are represented at a rate that mirrors their overall representation in the country, are the crimes where arguably police racial bias could most play a factor (i.e., driving under the influence and other liquor laws). That is, a racist cop could see a car swerving but let the driver go once the cop sees the driver is white. <br /><br />Also, you don't mention any of the research that has looked at the National Crime Victimization Survey. This data is based on survey responses about crime victimization (regardless of whether the crime was reported or not). If the judicial system was biased against blacks, we would expect these surveys to show that blacks are less likely to commit violent crime than the observed incarceration rates suggest. Yet, as studies have found, the breakdown of offenses by race in victimization surveys closely parallel observed crime statistics.<br /><br />Of course, there is always the issue that the patterns of violent crime rates seen in the United States are not confined to this nation. They are observed in other multiracial societies, as well as observed when cross-national comparisons are made.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-13697550368724006732014-04-11T20:44:34.244-04:002014-04-11T20:44:34.244-04:00@Bulldog: "we're losing the gains we made...@Bulldog: "we're losing the gains we made, and we're not ready to accept that yet. Which is why being aware of these questions still matters." <br /><br />I partially agree with this. We're not losing ground, but we're stagnant and we need more research to know why this is so, and how to remedy it. I know of two easy solutions, that would work immediately : we could stop arresting one eighth of adult urban blacks between 30 and 40 years old. <br /><br />-Anônimo Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17638760847613712826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-33584851457774332972014-04-11T20:40:44.682-04:002014-04-11T20:40:44.682-04:00Winston, this does not make economic sense!
Most ...Winston, this does not make economic sense!<br /><br />Most jobs pay above minimum wage, and have kept up with the rate of inflation. Why do you think that is? Because they cannot pay less and still find workers. This is the concept of the market equilibrium. A falling real wage (wage relative to price level) gives an incentive to employers to expand by hiring more low-skilled workers. But the pool of low-skilled workers is not unlimited. After a while, finding enough workers will be so difficult for any single employer that they will not be able to afford to offer less, or they won't find anyone to do the job. The problem is that the minimum wage has been set above the rate that would convince companies to hire those unemployed unskilled workers. Once this is not the case, there is no reason for the real wage to fall further. CAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-82861319282373507682014-04-11T19:34:03.687-04:002014-04-11T19:34:03.687-04:00When I said that the research "doesn't ad...When I said that the research "doesn't address my concerns," I went on to explain the fact that given IQ can be generally malleable given improved education and social conditions, controlling for test scores controls away many of the determinants of the education urban African Americans versus rich white suburbanites receive. So sure, when you look at equal IQs between African Americans and Caucasians, you see improved income equality over time (I'd be curious to see what is now, as the data in the book is somewhat dated -- hopefully it's improved and I can rest easier), but there's the deeper issue that there is still a wide disparity in test scores that is laying in wait underneath the surface of these statistics.<br /><br />I largely agree with your third post. Targeted early childhood education would be super helpful here! Providing subsidized day care for single mothers would be helpful! Higher wages for single mothers who would be enabled to spend more time reading to their kids every day would be super helpful! <br /><br />But that doesn't change the fact there are structural issues that were at play not too long ago and still have lasting impacts on our cities and our populations to this day. Poverty is inherited, and its damages compounds over time; and with poverty becoming increasingly concentrated since the early 1990s (see: http://tcf.org/assets/downloads/Concentration_of_Poverty_in_the_New_Millennium.pdf) there is some concern in my mind that we are starting to slip away from the progress we made since the 1960s; the book I cited earlier contains a lot of compelling evidence that we are indeed regressing. When even some of the most affluent African American families live in neighborhoods and raise their kids in environment that virtually none of even the poorest white families in America experience, that has repercussions, and that isn't on accident. <br /><br />So no, everyone didn't all of a sudden become explicitly more racist, but maybe we stopped caring as much and for that we're losing the gains we made, and we're not ready to accept that yet. Which is why being aware of these questions still matters.BulldogBouldererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802038954836060765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-26513738722385852592014-04-11T16:39:54.988-04:002014-04-11T16:39:54.988-04:00I think you've heard about economist James Hec...I think you've heard about economist James Heckman, a Nobel laureate, who likes to promote early education as a nostrum for "curing" the achievement gaps between whites and some minorities (blacks and Hispanics, since east Asians and Hindus are the ones Whites need to reach for). The reasoning is: these gaps begin to arise very, very early, so we need to intervene very, very early (Logic Win!)<br /><br />Anyway, see how Heckman – a most capable scholar, of course -- synthesized the evidence about market discrimination available in the nineties:<br /><br />http://public.econ.duke.edu/~hf14/teaching/povertydisc/readings/heckman98.pdf<br /><br />“A careful reading of the entire body of available evidence confirms that most of the disparity in earnings between blacks and whites in the labor market of the 1990s is due to the differences in skills they bring to the market, and not to discrimination within the labor market.”<br />(…)<br />“Ability as it crystallizes at an early age accounts for most of the measured gap in black and white labor market outcomes. Stricter enforcement of cid rights laws is a tenuous way to improve early childhood skills and ability. The weight of the evidence***** suggests that this ability and early motivation is most easily influenced by enriching family and preschool learning environments and by improving the quality of the early years of schooling.”<br /><br />I don’t think it would be intellectually honest to say that people suddenly became more racist in the aughties and market discrimination suffered a spike since Heckman wrote the quote above. Do you?<br /><br />--Anônimo<br /><br />***** Dirty cheap genetic sequencing in the aughties and twin studies have weakened the case for environmental influences – at least if we are talking about First World Country conditions (most of these studies are conduced in countries like USA and Sweden). If you want to learn something about the surprisingly small effect of parenting and shared environment in IQ you read “Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids”, by Bryan Caplan. It is not an academic book, but it does a very good précis of the “State of the Art” on this field.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-61159756145493805792014-04-11T15:53:00.412-04:002014-04-11T15:53:00.412-04:00@Bulldog: "This is interested but dated resea...@Bulldog: "This is interested but dated research (...)"<br /><br />Fair enough. But the most influential article about this issue – the one that probably was in Jencks’s mind when he said that we need to address the achievement gap through by reducing the test scores gap – is “Basic Skills and the Black-White Earnings Gap”, by Neal & Johnson (1996), which is cited to this day, because its basic finding – i.e. the black-white differential is dramatically reduced by controlling for performance on the Armed Forces Qualifications Test (AFQT) – have not been refuted since, or changed.<br /><br />If you find anything saying otherwise, I would like to know. People are making caveats to this basic finding (like, adjustments based on theories of statistical discrimination and the like). Nobody DARE to say that the basic finding (control for an IQ like test, like LSAT or AFQT, that the gap is dramatically reduced, or even reversed in some cases) is false.<br /><br />––AnônimoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-16330602044544061172014-04-11T14:51:30.505-04:002014-04-11T14:51:30.505-04:00@Bulldog: fails to address my main concerns with ...@Bulldog: fails to address my main concerns with controlling for IQ.<br /><br />No it doesn't fail to address you main concert (reading comprehension fail). Read it slowly: when you take only the Blacks who scored above the 50th percentile in the Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT), the black earnings is black earnings are "65 to 96 percent of the white average."<br /><br />The AFQT is a test of intelligence. You could easilly substitute it for an IQ test if it was politically feasible. Or an LSAT, it doesn't really matter. Read about it here: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/afqtscore.htm and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Services_Vocational_Aptitude_Battery<br /><br />Got it? <br /><br />And you don't need to apologize for the liberal lynch mob, of course. I was just saying you to "tell them": you liberal friends (it was a speech figure). People who believe in validity of IQ and in cognitive differences between ethnic groups aren't (all of them) a bunch of racists. There are people like me, or Richwine, or Murray: reasonable people, who saw the evidence and derived some conclusions from it. I don't agree with Richwine (I'm an open borders kind of guy) but I don't like to see people being witch hunted for saying the truth (on average, hispanics immigrants do have lower IQs than European immigrants).<br /><br />-AnônimoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-6435573763432364202014-04-11T14:29:44.043-04:002014-04-11T14:29:44.043-04:00Krzys: respectfully, we will disagree on the role ...Krzys: respectfully, we will disagree on the role of history. Even some of the most contemporary research shows that Black America faces exceptional difficulties in trying to escape the legacy of racist housing and financial policies (See Stuck in Place, published last year: http://www.amazon.com/Stuck-Place-Neighborhoods-Progress-Equality/dp/0226924254). The high concentration of poor black neighborhoods in our cities did not occur by chance -- how do you design policy to solve problems lackluster or perverse policy created in the first place? The answer doesn't involve denying political history. Comparisons to poor Asians or Caribbean Immigrants for "a way out" are futile in the sense that these parties don't have these legacies to overcome in the same way. Also, framing our argument in comparison to whatever European countries you have in mind is hardly convincing - cross-country comparisons that say "it's better here than there" doesn't have any impact on my argument of "it should be better, we need to improve and remain aware." These problems that America created, and these are problems that all of America owes to itself to fix, and not just dump the responsibility for doing so on its victims.<br /><br />Anônimo: This is interested but dated research and fails to address my main concerns with controlling for IQ. Thanks for sharing, though, I will certainly be thinking about this moving forward. <br /><br />I feel no pressure to apologize for a "liberal lynch mob" I have no association with. BulldogBouldererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04802038954836060765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-35663743005512427042014-04-11T14:23:49.781-04:002014-04-11T14:23:49.781-04:00Quite apart from how real those statements about t...Quite apart from how real those statements about the South are, you should look at the relative homicide rates in the north, west, wherever. The pattern is still the same.<br /><br />The harsh treatment of people in some minority neighborhoods does not have necessarily anything to do with prejudice, but with broken window theory and concentrated policing. It is debatable whether those techniques work as advertised, not to mention if the costs of alienating young minority males are worth it, but this is quite a different issue. Krzyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15794655390770135247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-59283493151285566692014-04-11T11:12:48.697-04:002014-04-11T11:12:48.697-04:00Hey...off topic...
I can only post as "Winsto...Hey...off topic...<br />I can only post as "Winston Smith" (a handle I have not used in years) through my google account.<br />What happened to the other options? Have the options changed or is the problem on my end ?<br />Anyone having a similar experience ?Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09520983044897377185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-61337120726948087382014-04-11T11:03:20.536-04:002014-04-11T11:03:20.536-04:00CA...Your libertarian prescription will fail, iron...CA...Your libertarian prescription will fail, ironically because of market dynamics. <br /><br />Any EITC will be captured by Employers over time by simply by not giving their employees raises that keep up with inflation. (just like has been happening) And why wouldn't they capture all the EITC they can ? It is a good business decision to have the government pay your employees. An employer would be negligent not to capture the EITC.<br /><br />The only thing that would prevent this from happening is a minimum wage that is pegged to inflation. <br /><br />You can't get around it...the EITC and the minimum wage are Complements, not alternatives. Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09520983044897377185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-67471469924563433142014-04-11T10:43:01.360-04:002014-04-11T10:43:01.360-04:00@ Andy Parrott: "And once that initial wealth...@ Andy Parrott: "And once that initial wealth is attained privilege becomes a birthright of the culture."<br /><br />This is false. Europe's (without Russia) steel production in 1700 a.D. was smaller than China's steel production by the time of the Song Dinasty ~1080 a.D (see Pomeranz, K,, 2000). Chinese were using steam engines to power blast furnace bellows some hundreds of years before European dimwits.<br /><br />Yet, they stagnated. Yet they fell. Yet their initial privilege amount to very little in the end, and only now they are putting their shit together, by immitating us and becoming bourgeois.<br /><br />--AnônimoUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17638760847613712826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-15086572219080557592014-04-11T10:28:57.806-04:002014-04-11T10:28:57.806-04:00@ Andy Parrott: "I think it's more illumi...@ Andy Parrott: "I think it's more illuminating to think about poverty in terms of privilege rather than culture."<br /><br />It is not, because a change in culture can cause growth. To see this, you should compare the reforms introduced in Japan by the Meiji* on the late 19th century with the "reforms" introduced by empress dowager Cixi** in China at the same time.<br /><br />China had been always the richer, bigger, more civilized country. A fast change in ideology (occidentalization) and all that changed: Japan gained the upper hand and used it really bad (atrociously, murderously, infamously) in the early 20th century against China and other countries in the Pacific rim – including yours (Pearl Harbour).<br /><br />Changes in economic destiny caused by ideological turns can be really fast. See what happened to Argentina when it adopted Peronism (a kind of socialistic populism) in the 1940s: http://www.economonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/arg2.png<br /><br />-Anônimo<br /><br />* “Reforms” introduced by empress dowager Cixi* in the late 19th century in China<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Dowager_Cixi<br /><br />"Scholars sometimes attribute the failure of China's foreign programs to Cixi's conservative attitude and old methods of thinking, and contend that Cixi would learn only so much from the foreigners, provided it did not infringe upon her own power. Under the pretext that a railway was too loud and would "disturb the Emperor's tombs," Cixi forbade its construction. When construction went ahead anyway in 1877 under Li Hongzhang's recommendation, Cixi asked that they be pulled by horse-drawn carts. Cixi was especially alarmed at the liberal thinking of people who had studied abroad, and saw that it posed a new threat to her power. In 1881, Cixi put a halt to sending children abroad to study, and withdrew her formerly open attitude towards foreigners."<br /><br />* Reforms introduced in Japan by the Meiji* on the late 19th century in Japan<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration<br /><br />"The rapid industrialization and modernization of Japan both allowed and required a massive increase in production and infrastructure. Japan built industries such as shipyards, iron smelters, and spinning mills, which were then sold to well-connected entrepreneurs. Consequently, domestic companies became consumers of Western technology and applied it to produce items that would be sold cheaply in the international market. With this, industrial zones grew enormously, and there was massive migration to industrializing centers from the countryside. Industrialization additionally went hand in hand with the development of a national railway system and modern communications."<br /><br />(...)<br /><br /><br />Size of the merchant fleet<br /><br />Year Number of steamships<br />1873 26<br />1894 169<br />1904 797<br />1913 1514<br /><br />(...)<br /><br /><br />Length of train track<br /><br />Year Track<br />(mi) (km)<br />1872 18 29<br />1883 240 390<br />1887 640 1,030<br />1894 2,100 3,400<br />1904 4,700 7,600<br />1914 7,100 11,400<br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17638760847613712826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-44766381578185373202014-04-11T09:56:31.088-04:002014-04-11T09:56:31.088-04:00I think it's more illuminating to think about ...I think it's more illuminating to think about poverty in terms of privilege rather than culture. When we think about successful, cultures, I usually see a progression like this: good luck --> initial success --> privilege --> sustained success.<br /><br />Privilege can't go back indefinitely--it had to start some time. And I find Jared Diamond type explanations that look at the natural distribution of resources to be a pretty plausible explanation of where it comes in the first place. If you live in a place with lots of high-yield crops and animals that can be domesticated and timber and iron and tin and so on, you will likely become wealthier than your neighbors. And once that initial wealth is attained privilege becomes a birthright of the culture.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05881937470447603589noreply@blogger.com