tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post1720276641931873850..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Triangle Man and the libertariansNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger133125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40143337909706369542013-09-11T20:46:35.434-04:002013-09-11T20:46:35.434-04:00Most libertarians believe government should exist ...Most libertarians believe government should exist to protect property rights. They don't believe in acquiring property by force (the POINT of property rights is to prevent this). They do believe in defending property with force because the violator has entered, as Locke would say, a "state of war" by using force. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-10604016706880856742013-09-11T20:40:33.541-04:002013-09-11T20:40:33.541-04:00Actually, Germany needed to be persuaded to join t...Actually, Germany needed to be persuaded to join the Euro Zone. They were afraid that other countries irresponsible policies and were given assurances that other member nations wouldn't accumulate too much debt (apparently their concerns were justified).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-91141575360387831222013-09-11T20:36:42.821-04:002013-09-11T20:36:42.821-04:00Segregation was institutionalized in PUBLIC school...Segregation was institutionalized in PUBLIC schools and PUBLIC restrooms/water fountains. Blacks were required to sit in the back of PUBLIC buses. The military was segregated. This applied to other public institutions as well. Given that these public institutions do exist (anticipating an irrelevant retort that libertarians want to limit the amount of public institutions) THAT is what libertarians would believe would have to be desegregated under law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-76708705058427109902013-08-16T21:34:05.917-04:002013-08-16T21:34:05.917-04:00There is something weirdly....universal about all ...There is something weirdly....universal about all these rights (permissions?) we are supposed to have.<br /><br />If you don't want to let redheads, Swedes or one-legged men into your house then whose opinion gets to trump yours? It just makes no sense. Freedom of disocciation goes hand in hand with freedom of association. You don't have to LIKE it, but no-one is asking you to like it or to morally endorse it?<br /><br />Why is this so hard for reasonably intelligent people to get? Why must everyone else be forced to flatter their moral conceits?Old Odd Jobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14239083003799351747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-57513337534034734472013-08-15T22:12:31.376-04:002013-08-15T22:12:31.376-04:00Serious people don't hold up extremist kooks a...Serious people don't hold up extremist kooks as "ideal" e.g. Osama bin Laden wasn't an "ideal Muslim".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-66911346017229111782013-08-15T16:04:30.685-04:002013-08-15T16:04:30.685-04:00Gordon has no credibility among Libertarians and i...Gordon has no credibility among Libertarians and is a right-wing fruitcake who thinks Ted Cruz is 'libertarian-leaning.'<br /><br />He was part of a group of right-wing extremists that briefly seized control of the LP several years ago, gutted its platform, and put Bob Barr on the ballot. The right-wing types come in every decade or so pushing their brand of GOP 'liberty' fascism.<br /><br />Check some of the e-group a few years ago to see what Libertarians think of this guy.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-7075793879157596252013-08-14T10:57:48.658-04:002013-08-14T10:57:48.658-04:00It is really, really risky to tell other people wh...It is really, really risky to tell other people what they think without first checking. In fact I dislike it in general. You should ask. I have heard this tendency to project ideas on to other called "mind raping". You should stop it.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-85612229094681917062013-08-14T10:42:07.011-04:002013-08-14T10:42:07.011-04:00http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/1...http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/12/the-single-best-anti-gun-death-policy-ending-the-drug-war/266505/Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-17502376977807975502013-08-14T10:35:26.521-04:002013-08-14T10:35:26.521-04:00Noah also believes that legalizing drugs is a bad ...Noah also believes that legalizing drugs is a bad idea, apparently believing that the War on Drugs isn't a racial apartheid, and that it is just another success story of the government using its bully powers to protect minorities from petite bullies.Graham Petersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01026808626031607339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-49397048044597860082013-08-13T15:30:34.895-04:002013-08-13T15:30:34.895-04:00Ludwig von Mises:
Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand:
...Ludwig von Mises:<br /><br />Mises in a letter to Ayn Rand:<br /><br />“You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the efforts of men who are better than you.” <br /><br />http://mises.org/journals/jls/21_4/21_4_3.pdf<br /><br /><br />“the average common man is in many regards inferior to the average businessman. But this inferiority manifests itself first of all in his limited ability to think”<br /><br />http://mises.org/daily/2179<br /> <br /><br />“It is true that the masses do not think. But just for this reason they follow those who do think.” <br /><br />http://mises.org/books/socialism/part5_ch35.aspx<br /><br /><br />“certain races have contributed nothing or very little to the development of civilization and can, in this sense, be called inferior.” <br /><br />http://mises.org/humanaction/chap3sec6.asp<br /><br /><br />“It is perfectly legitimate to assume that the races are different in their cognitive abilities and in their willpower and accordingly are unequally suited for the task of setting up societies, and that the better races are characterized in particular by their special ability to strengthen social bonds.” <br /> <br />Ludwig von Mises, The Market Economy, 1932, p. 297<br /><br /><br />“It may be admitted that the races differ in talent and character and that there is no hope of ever seeing those differences resolved. Still, free-trade theory shows that even the more capable races derive an advantage from associating with the less capable and that social cooperation brings them the advantage of higher productivity in the total labor process”. <br /><br />Mises, L. von. 1951. Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis, Ludwig von Mises Institute, Auburn, Ala. pp. 325-326.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-3090536839215658412013-08-13T14:41:53.481-04:002013-08-13T14:41:53.481-04:00You realize this is a completely bogus argument pr...You realize this is a completely bogus argument proposed by the religious right in order to show some "harm" to them from allowing gays to marry, don't you ?<br /><br />My comment to his "libertarian" B.S.:<br /><br />"Currently priests will refuse to marry you if you have been divorced, rabbi's can refuse to marry you if you are baptists, etc - all of which has nothing to do with our marriage laws and no one is suggesting "forcing" priests to do anything except for the religious right. And it would be blatantly unconstitutional to do so.<br /><br />Seeing libertarians repeat religious right B.S. is a sure sign they have sold out their principles to the right for political gain."Patrick ONeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08983733525647473224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-1011165089486002902013-08-13T13:24:07.282-04:002013-08-13T13:24:07.282-04:00Murray Rothbard:
“The Tutsi are an Ethiopid, Nilo...Murray Rothbard:<br /><br />“The Tutsi are an Ethiopid, Nilotic people. The Hutu, on the other hand, are short, squat Bantu, a closer approximation to what used to be called "Negro" in America. "Negroes" are now called "black," but the problem here is that the skin color of both the Tutsi and the Hutu are much the same. The real issue, as in most other cases, is not skin color but various character traits of different population groups. The crucial point is that, in both Rwanda and Burundi, Hutus and Tutsis have coexisted for centuries; the Tutsi are about 15 percent of the total population, the Hutu about 85 percent. And yet consistently, over the centuries, the Tutsi have totally dominated, and even enserfed, the Hutu. How are we to explain this consistent pattern of domination by a small minority? Could it be – dare I say it – that along with being taller, slimmer, more graceful and noble-looking, the Tutsi are far more i-n-t-e-l-l-i-g-e-n-t than the Hutu? And yet what else explains this overriding fact?<br /><br />http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard74.html<br /><br /><br />“If, then, inequality of income is the inevitable corollary of freedom, then so too is inequality of control. In any organization, there will always be a minority of people who will rise to the position of leaders and others who will remain as followers in the rank and file. Robert Michels [fascist sociologist] discovered this as one of the great laws of sociology, "The Iron Law of Oligarchy." In every organized activity, no matter the sphere, a small number will become the "oligarchical" leaders and the others will follow.<br /><br />In the market economy, the leaders will inevitably earn more money than the rank and file. Within other organizations, the difference will only be that of control. But, in either case, ability and interest will select those who rise to the top. <br /><br />“If, then, the natural inequality of ability and of interest among men must make elites inevitable, the only sensible course is to abandon the chimera of equality and accept the universal necessity of leaders and followers. The task of the libertarian, the person dedicated to the idea of the free society, is not to inveigh against elites which, like the need for freedom, flow directly from the nature of man. The goal of the libertarian is rather to establish a free society… In this society the elites will be free to rise to their best level… we will discover "natural aristocracies" who will rise to prominence and leadership in every field. The point is to allow the rise of these natural aristocracies”.<br /><br />http://mises.org/fipandol/fipsec4.asp<br /><br /><br />“The great fact of individual difference and variability (that is, inequality) is evident from the long record of human experience... Socially and economically, this variability manifests itself in the universal division of labor, and in the "Iron Law of Oligarchy" – the insight that, in every organization or activity, a few (generally the most able and/or the most interested) will end up as leaders, with the mass of the membership filling the ranks of the followers. In both cases, the same phenomenon is at work – outstanding success or leadership in any given activity is attained by a "natural aristocracy...<br /><br />The age-old record of inequality seems to indicate that this variability and diversity is rooted in the biological nature of man”<br /><br />http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard31.html<br />Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-72654257955698624302013-08-13T13:17:34.219-04:002013-08-13T13:17:34.219-04:00Here's Murray Rothbard on the subject:
“throu...Here's Murray Rothbard on the subject:<br /><br />“through the 1920’s, most American intellectuals were fundamentally “racist,” i.e., they upheld two guiding postulates: (1) that the white race in general, and the Anglo-Saxon wing of that race in particular, are inherently superior, intellectually and morally, to other races and ethnic groups, and particularly the brown and black races..." <br /><br />"Until literally mid-October 1994, it was shameful and taboo for anyone to talk publicly or write about, home truths which everyone, and I mean everyone, knew in their hearts and in private: that is, self-evident truths about race, intelligence, and heritability. What used to be widespread shared public knowledge about race and ethnicity among writers, publicists, and scholars, was suddenly driven out of the public square by Communist anthropologist Franz Boas and his associates in the 1930s, and it has been taboo ever since. Essentially, I mean the almost self-evident fact that individuals, ethnic groups, and races differ among themselves in intelligence and in many other traits, and that intelligence, as well as less controversial traits of temperament, are in large part hereditary.<br /><br />"when we as populists and libertarians abolish the welfare state in all of its aspects, and property rights and the free market shall be triumphant once more, many individuals and groups will predictably not like the end result. In that case, those ethnic and other groups who might be concentrated in lower-income or less prestigious occupations, guided by their socialistic mentors, will predictably raise the cry that free-market capitalism is evil and "discriminatory" and that therefore collectivism is needed to redress the balance. In that case, the intelligence argument will become useful to defend the market economy and the free society from ignorant or self-serving attacks. In short; racialist science is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors."<br /><br />http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=2136&chapter=195367&layout=html&Itemid=27<br />http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch75.htmlJamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40087701524021004402013-08-13T06:26:09.144-04:002013-08-13T06:26:09.144-04:00Ms Yellen.
Yes women can be economists too.Ms Yellen.<br /><br />Yes women can be economists too.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-87079199116992180432013-08-13T06:20:00.636-04:002013-08-13T06:20:00.636-04:00And with fundamental Christianity - well what abou...And with fundamental Christianity - well what about the conflicting rights of their children (or spouses) to behave differently? What about social pressure, to restrict the behaviour of other individuals in their society? It is complicated. Maximising effective freedom is very complex. The real error in Libertarianism is in thinking it is simple.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-4106551360185722542013-08-13T06:16:39.869-04:002013-08-13T06:16:39.869-04:00I think this is just silly. We share a world, it i...I think this is just silly. We share a world, it is better if there are clear standards. Lets just replace "beliefs or behaviours" with a belief in driving on the left (or in some countries the right) side of the road. Or a belief in firing weapons randomly in public (why nobody has been hurt - yet).<br /><br />This is not a question of principle, this is a question of degree.reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958786975015285323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-27440889889724089782013-08-12T15:37:55.328-04:002013-08-12T15:37:55.328-04:00Aren't Person/Particle man part of Triangle Ma...Aren't Person/Particle man part of Triangle Man and Universe man?Davydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15161743272166194930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-65297095158457416332013-08-12T13:23:58.612-04:002013-08-12T13:23:58.612-04:00With the news lately about Mr. Yellen I was readin...With the news lately about Mr. Yellen I was reading his famous "market for lemons" paper that is hard for libertarians to refute. Libertarian utopia is only ideal if the price mechanism is truly an efficient and instantaneous way to transfer information. I don't believe it is or ever can be and as long as asymmetric information persists the dream world of libertarian utopia types will be as likely as never-never land.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13305124836711242805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-64022081107971515802013-08-12T12:40:58.138-04:002013-08-12T12:40:58.138-04:00As Pompey the Great of the ancient Roman Repubic s...As Pompey the Great of the ancient Roman Repubic said, "Do not quote laws to men with swords!".<br /><br />I doubt anyone here seriously think that without a strong state people would not use force to infringe upon other people's natural rights. Do you think our Bill of Rights would be enforced universally and voluntarily in such a libertarian utopia?Rpeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12531315055088140280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-58632518829424998742013-08-12T10:20:03.955-04:002013-08-12T10:20:03.955-04:00Getting government out of the business of marrying...Getting government out of the business of marrying...? Why? Why is it better for religious institutions to be in charge of marriage than for government to be in charge? <br /><br />If the answer is that nobody should "be in charge", well members of church hierarchies don't qualify as "nobody". Separation of church and state was necessary at least as much because churches had functioned as states as because mundane governments have taken over religion. <br /><br />Part of the rhetorical problem here is the one we typically run into with libertarians. Their model is so far from reality than their solutions tend to fall apart. When those solutions fall apart, the answer is generally to say that the world just needs to change itself enough that their solutions don't fall apart. You want a pony with that?<br /><br />This whole "blatant lying liar" stuff is small-minded. Libertarians have their little spirals within little spirals that allow them always to claim that outsiders have mischaracterized the views of "real" libertarians. That's among the better reasons for never letting a libertarian remake your government. Libertarianism can be, within limits, whatever it needs to be on a given day, for a given purpose. As long as the blatant lying liar response is that easy to use, libertarianism is a pig in a poke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-49842540187165903882013-08-12T10:07:41.962-04:002013-08-12T10:07:41.962-04:00The same way real estate developments with racial ...The same way real estate developments with racial covenants were undercut by non discriminating housing. The free market worked! It's so obvious, I don't even need to check the historical record. I just consult my priors.Aneecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07740727128876024986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-66952399303447817342013-08-12T10:06:37.639-04:002013-08-12T10:06:37.639-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Aneecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07740727128876024986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-86460665978724283232013-08-12T09:30:37.551-04:002013-08-12T09:30:37.551-04:00"IMAGINARY STRAWMAN FAIL"
Go to some li..."IMAGINARY STRAWMAN FAIL"<br /><br />Go to some libertarian comment threads and claim that an employer is 'forcing' an employee to do something.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-41944827432354926102013-08-12T09:29:48.121-04:002013-08-12T09:29:48.121-04:00Please note that that is in *the United Kingdom* w...Please note that that is in *the United Kingdom* which is another country from the USA. In particular, there is an established church, and no First Amendment.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-46149330016080338262013-08-12T08:34:24.042-04:002013-08-12T08:34:24.042-04:00This argument does not seem too strong for me. Wou...This argument does not seem too strong for me. Would you say the same if florist or wedding photographer refused to "participate" in marriage of mixed couple because they do not adhere to this "novel" concept of marriage?<br /><br />The same argument that Noah used for Policemen refusing to fine Koreans is valid for these people. They are free not to arrange and sell wedding flowers or take photographs of weddings and thus risking conflict with their religious sensibilities. <br /><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14853090724221729923noreply@blogger.com