tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post288751241868151848..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Is education a public good?Noah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-45289850029037086742011-07-31T18:36:31.890-04:002011-07-31T18:36:31.890-04:00"Well, we could solve it the Coasian way, by ..."Well, we could solve it the Coasian way, by giving some older person(s) - e.g. your parents - the right to the proceeds from your future labor. But this would mean you would be born into slavery."<br />Well, we are on our way to this solution in the tertiary education, with student loans for the ever-increasing tuition (non-forgivable, even if return on educational investment does not pan out) absorbing the rights to the proceeds of a student's labor for longer and longer times.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-45561920595787449812011-06-30T18:03:51.691-04:002011-06-30T18:03:51.691-04:00Noah,
Gangs are still formed by kids who are supp...Noah,<br /><br />Gangs are still formed by kids who are supposed to be in public school. Gangs are a product of poverty, not the lack of organized and compulsory schooling.<br /><br />The street gangs of history eventually turned into organized crime, and after that into governments. There isn't much of a functional difference between paying "protection money" and "taxes."Stone Glasgowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00545401735030232324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-69896601575629909902011-06-29T21:08:05.535-04:002011-06-29T21:08:05.535-04:00I was told that the primary reason for the institu...I was told that the primary reason for the institution of compulsory education was to keep the brats out of the work force to lower competition for jobs for a while.<br /><br />Now it seems that Daddy BigBucks wants to restrict higher education so that his C+ average son can learn enough to succeed him as CEO of BigBucks Corp., although Jr. does well only in Physical Education and has yet to pass Remedial Math.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-86806039790223498392011-06-29T21:06:06.127-04:002011-06-29T21:06:06.127-04:00Your claim that the alternative to public schools ...Your claim that the alternative to public schools would be gangs is quite questionable. "The City of God" is not a place where Robert Nozick is in charge of educational policy. I would find it just as plausible that the public schooling system as we know it <b>encourages</b> the existence of youth gangs.TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-63085028422256910842011-06-29T18:36:12.617-04:002011-06-29T18:36:12.617-04:00Your belief that the prosperity of modern societie...Your belief that the prosperity of modern societies is due to public education is questionable. The USA was quite wealthy in the 1940s (when our industrial capacity provided much of the wealth required to prosecute wars in Europe and Asia) and even into the 50s but much of the workforce had not been subjected to the requirement to complete high-school.<br />18-24 year old boys (sometimes called men) also form gangs, but are not subject to compulsory education. And, in areas where gangs are a big problem, the schools don't seem to be much deterrent to the below 18 crowd.Douglass Holmeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04372873460238540498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-55423231673623835382011-06-29T15:07:30.002-04:002011-06-29T15:07:30.002-04:00Noah: have you read David Friedman's old essay...Noah: have you read David Friedman's old essay "The Weak Case for Public Schooling?" He responds to many, if not all, of the arguments you give.Nick Weiningerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04249299771535119334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-32132765512492197282011-06-29T05:57:54.633-04:002011-06-29T05:57:54.633-04:00The question of whether all positive externalities...The question of whether all positive externalities can be represented as public goods (depending on how you choose to define the set of goods) is something I'll leave for another post. But if you feel uncomfortable with a liberal use of the word "public good," just substitute "positive externality", since both are cases when economic efficiency requires the solving of a coordination problem.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40910665483878312362011-06-29T01:07:11.686-04:002011-06-29T01:07:11.686-04:00@Helen
You may not be an economist, and that'...@Helen<br /><br />You may not be an economist, and that's ok, but realize you are reading an economic blog.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01307023402400539026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-43844650799028904042011-06-29T00:33:43.818-04:002011-06-29T00:33:43.818-04:00Whether or not education fits some formal definiti...Whether or not education fits some formal definition of a "public good" has very little to do with whether or not it is good for the public. It also has very little to with your original "Tamerlane" post.<br /><br />You are getting a lot of negative comments because you are undercutting the ability of stupid white boys both influence public policy and to pretend that they are intellectuals.Helen Bushnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14177708490995175178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-37127881107234993072011-06-28T23:54:30.347-04:002011-06-28T23:54:30.347-04:00Thanks for responding to my question.
Jails aren&...Thanks for responding to my question.<br /><br />Jails aren't a public good either. You can make an argument based on externalities, but that still doesn't make a good a public good.<br /><br />Also, having your parents decide whether you go to school until you reach a certain age (let's say 15) is way less of the slavery option than compulsory education.<br /><br />Libertarians don't have all the answers to the difficult questions of organizing society; but no one person does, and you certainly don't.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01307023402400539026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-67243827910564714542011-06-28T23:01:04.177-04:002011-06-28T23:01:04.177-04:00Education is not a public good. A public good is ...Education is not a public good. A public good is one that is non-rivaled and non-excludable. Due to communication technologies, education IS non-rivaled. However, it is excludable. Has a child ever been taken out of class? Yes. One can be denied the service of education by the producer of said education.<br /><br />Education is not a public good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-12449144148803242262011-06-28T17:58:29.614-04:002011-06-28T17:58:29.614-04:00You don't explicitly say it, but you've al...You don't explicitly say it, but you've also described a positive externality. Others benefit from an individual's education. <br /><br />"<b>Socialization of education</b> solved the incomplete markets problem and <b>created the vast literate workforces that undergird every moden nation's prosperity</b>."Eric Moreyhttp://glodime.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-48707130960489420932011-06-28T12:58:06.754-04:002011-06-28T12:58:06.754-04:00I will re-iterate the point I made in earlier comm...I will re-iterate the point I made in earlier comments: education is a sunk-cost investment, the full social returns to which tend to diffuse away from the possessor of the education. Even the putative returns to the individual from a college education are mostly artifacts of using credentials as a filter for the seats of bureaucratic power and for the professions, which enjoy substantial rents. Simple incidence analysis would confirm that urban landlords end up with a lot of the returns on college education.<br /><br />If you are going with "incomplete markets", you should at least say, "insurance". The key difficulty, in a world of incomplete information and genuine uncertainty, is risk-aversion. As you say, parents, who had to pay, from limited family wealth, would make highly risk-averse choices. And, a Coasian solution would make adult slaves out of educated children, creating another problem of risk-averse -- or, that other outcome of a shortage of "insurance": desperate and reckless behavior. <br /><br />Governments are well-suited to providing "insurance", and, given incomplete markets in "insurance" that's an important function. It is also a function for government that libertarians characteristically tend to object to, perhaps because of its implications for income distribution.Bruce Wilderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09631065564839959376noreply@blogger.com