tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post3813966761262803027..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Casey Mulligan's thoughts on the Great RecessionNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-71394901820019891782014-10-15T16:12:59.122-04:002014-10-15T16:12:59.122-04:00Hey Barry, KV posted this below; I think he probab...Hey Barry, KV posted this below; I think he probably wanted to reply you here!<br /><br />For you only, Barry. Money is the politics so there is no influence in politics, some suppository cure common cold, you should try it by searching, and you can take a gun and right the wrong solving your injustice problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-56564427277304744382014-10-15T14:53:12.334-04:002014-10-15T14:53:12.334-04:00To make the point more clear, I wouldn't quest...To make the point more clear, I wouldn't question your motivations because your social utility function doesn't match mine. I would have to take your own social utility function and prove that it leads to those motivations. So, I'd be using your definitions of efficiency. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-87248282586442330832014-10-15T14:49:31.463-04:002014-10-15T14:49:31.463-04:00I'm not reading 5 pages of that based off of a...I'm not reading 5 pages of that based off of a blog comment, sorry. You're completely and utterly missing the point. We're talking about Chicago, and Casey in particular. He made a comment about HIS motivations. I don't care about yours, or Absalon's. So, making a comment like:<br /><br />"Standard University of Chicago stuff: 'The problem is that the poor have too much money and the rich have too little.'"<br /><br />He claimed that was their motivation, so I gave a thought experiment proving that Casey doesn't care about the levels of income, HE would consider country A that redistributes as less efficient than Country B that has the same level of inequality but without it. <br /><br />If you want to know about their motivation, you look at their social justice function. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-68304153986508692132014-10-15T14:12:52.320-04:002014-10-15T14:12:52.320-04:00:-)):-))Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09520983044897377185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-1985017823433737982014-10-15T13:04:05.149-04:002014-10-15T13:04:05.149-04:00For you only, Barry. Money is the politics so the...For you only, Barry. Money is the politics so there is no influence in politics, some suppository cure common cold, you should try it by searching, and you can take a gun and right the wrong solving your injustice problem.KVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-89892197839331137862014-10-15T11:08:48.910-04:002014-10-15T11:08:48.910-04:00Mulligan is probably right that the massive redist...Mulligan is probably right that the massive redistribution of wealth from the middle and lower classes to the extremely rich, which has occurred since the beginning of the crisis, has had a serious negative impact on economic growth.<br /><br />That is what Mulligan is talking about, right? Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40058507348073794572014-10-15T10:25:25.758-04:002014-10-15T10:25:25.758-04:00"There has to be a better way. I have now con..."There has to be a better way. I have now concluded that Obamacare needs to be gutted and be replaced by something much more simple. "<br /><br />While you're doing this, I suggest also removing the influence of money on politics, curing the common cold, and ending injustice.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-53786509403768929452014-10-15T10:24:01.311-04:002014-10-15T10:24:01.311-04:00IIRC, Mulligan also blamed the Great Depression on...IIRC, Mulligan also blamed the Great Depression on a (mysterious, unknown and unmeasurable) increased desire to work fewer hours.<br /><br />Wages fell during the initial period, when they should have been rising (if 10% of the labor force heads to the beach, the immediate effect is that wages would go up for the remaining 90%). Noah himself pointed that out. <br /><br />I would say that Chicago isn't into falsification, but perhaps it's more accurate to say that they're liars (as is the St. Louis Fed, for hosting Mulligan).Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-11279202603117675082014-10-15T10:18:49.528-04:002014-10-15T10:18:49.528-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-77350772000103080062014-10-15T03:55:20.117-04:002014-10-15T03:55:20.117-04:00Anonymous should read this series:
http://www.inte...Anonymous should read this series:<br />http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/5537.htmlreasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06594313655855683716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-9550471993622769512014-10-15T03:50:05.773-04:002014-10-15T03:50:05.773-04:00Anonymous
"It's the policies with disince...Anonymous<br />"It's the policies with disincentives that do. I.e. a country that redistributes to the point that the rich have X amount of money and the poor Y is less efficient than a country that has no policy but X amount of money to the rich, and Y for the poor. "<br /><br />What does "efficient" even mean here? Efficient in acchieving what exactly? Maybe that is what you don't understand.<br />reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06594313655855683716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-23496899619755560942014-10-15T03:12:20.313-04:002014-10-15T03:12:20.313-04:00Chicago school cannot fail, it can only be failed....Chicago school cannot fail, it can only be failed. Wish harder or Tinkerbell dies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-62584358263464656332014-10-14T21:04:09.642-04:002014-10-14T21:04:09.642-04:00So the argument is that even though labor has not ...So the argument is that even though labor has not shared in growth since 1980... what slowed down the recovery was that labor became overvalued and couldn't adjust.<br /><br />And if the market would been operating unencumbered it would have cut income by 5% and that would have spurred demand.<br /><br />How is that not crazy talk?Bill Ellisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-83920535504266776982014-10-14T20:47:23.823-04:002014-10-14T20:47:23.823-04:00So before we had a social safety net to interfear....So before we had a social safety net to interfear...labor markets corrected themselves just like Mulligan says ? Just that nicely I bet.<br /><br />I mean its all so beautifully mechanistic... No amount of human nature could possibly discombobulate it. <br />It's so obvious. Humans are powerless against markets. The proof is that Our actions are totally determined by markets and always have been. Bill Ellisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-80426753184867163462014-10-14T15:27:08.857-04:002014-10-14T15:27:08.857-04:00He knows that there was a financial crisis, right?...He knows that there was a financial crisis, right?Maggie Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822013439171121624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-60800280108905646962014-10-14T08:47:03.221-04:002014-10-14T08:47:03.221-04:00Upward redistribution fueled the crisis. Ronald Re...Upward redistribution fueled the crisis. Ronald Reagan took money from people who buy goods and put money in the hands of people real estate, stocks, and other assets. <br /><br />The results: prices of real estate and .com stocks get bid up into bubbles and the demand for goods falls short of full employment. Thornton Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11402495641975262697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-67596880578575336182014-10-14T08:24:19.543-04:002014-10-14T08:24:19.543-04:00The biggest problem with the US economy is the lac...The biggest problem with the US economy is the lack of power of labor over capital. That pendulum has swung really far to the side of capital. We can argue Nafta, globalization, tax incentives to private equity and on and on but it's hard to argue that it has not happened.<br /><br />Until we bring that imbalance a little closer we're going to have a problem. Taylor & Mulligan are simply well paid shills for the capital side of the equation. That they can get economically depressed white male voters to vote against their economic interests is amazing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-27985809577193126792014-10-14T02:44:11.547-04:002014-10-14T02:44:11.547-04:00I tried to read and comprehend contents of CM'...I tried to read and comprehend contents of CM's paper. Somehow, I could not. I also realize that Obamacare is incomprehensible at best. How and why we got there is a mystery to me. <br /><br />I am also concerned that the benefit payment mechanisms will be exploited to deny the treatments and procedures. <br /><br />There has to be a better way. I have now concluded that Obamacare needs to be gutted and be replaced by something much more simple. Why not the first 10% of income (that dreaded AGI line in 1040) to be the premium to a single option (no bronze, silver etc bs) medical plan? Say, one's AGI is $100K; then $10K is medical insurance premium leaving $90K as taxable income that may be reduced by personal exemptions, itemized deductions, etc. This 10% is collected at the time income is realized. For example, sell an ETF at a gain, 10% of gain is medical insurance tax (sell at a loss, no reduction in medical tax from other incomes); only the rest of the gain (90%) is subjected to long term, short term definitions - the first 10% is tax. If you make $1B, you pay $100M in medical tax. For the rich, it is a small price to pay to keep the society functioning...KVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-50534821094842197822014-10-13T21:54:14.213-04:002014-10-13T21:54:14.213-04:00You still literally don't get it. Let's sa...You still literally don't get it. Let's say you had an economy that was completely equal in income, and you had a policy that gave money from one to the other makig them unequal. Think that Casey would support that? I guess the actual amount they have doesn't matter, it's a matter of terrible policy. Take your time thinking about that one Absolon. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-15285797930831338992014-10-13T21:31:33.079-04:002014-10-13T21:31:33.079-04:00It's worse than that, I think. Isn't it ba...It's worse than that, I think. Isn't it basically a tautology that the main components of countercyclical redistribution (unemployment insurance and increased outlays for other anti-poverty measures) will reduce the average labor hours per capita? The whole point of unemployment insurance is to provide some basic income that makes it unnecessary to race to the bottom for lower wages, which would result in people working more hours to accomplish the same tasks because of a less efficient allocation of labor.Zachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-73702414034670545452014-10-13T21:17:32.678-04:002014-10-13T21:17:32.678-04:00Oh wow! I can't believe there's a Univers...Oh wow! I can't believe there's a University that allows this kind of work to continue.<br /><br />One possible reason that this kind of reasoning is allowed to continue is that most people can't be bothered to repeatedly explain how his reasoning is not worthy of a 5th grader.<br /><br />The U of C should be ashamed of itself.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-24011294932416540452014-10-13T16:26:56.276-04:002014-10-13T16:26:56.276-04:00I always lament economics lacks the wit of the hum...I always lament economics lacks the wit of the humanities debates of the 20th century, but Noah did a great job reaching that mark here. Bravo, Prof. Smith!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-14296946891377422292014-10-13T15:26:56.662-04:002014-10-13T15:26:56.662-04:00Anonymous - not once did I refer to the mechanism ...Anonymous - not once did I refer to the mechanism by which the poor had too much and the rich too little. You are right that Mulligan thinks that it is redistributive policies that shifts money from rich to poor and he would like to see that money shift back. That embellishment does not change or undermine my summary of the Chicago position. <br /><br />As to what is "efficient": that depends entirely on what your social utility function is. I suspect that you and I have different utility functions. Absalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131268683451462949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-25306951836393612022014-10-13T15:04:18.835-04:002014-10-13T15:04:18.835-04:00This is in regards to redistributive policy, do yo...This is in regards to redistributive policy, do you not see that? The actual relation of the rich to the poor doesn't matter. It's the policies with disincentives that do. I.e. a country that redistributes to the point that the rich have X amount of money and the poor Y is less efficient than a country that has no policy but X amount of money to the rich, and Y for the poor. <br /><br />Not once in the e-mail did he say anything about the actual amount the rich or the poor have, just that the policy created disincentives. If the money magically redistributed without the costs, that would be a different matter altogether. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-79477827581600633672014-10-13T13:51:32.047-04:002014-10-13T13:51:32.047-04:00In any case, I apologize for over-interpreting Cas...<i>In any case, I apologize for over-interpreting Casey's statements, and I hope this post will make clear the nuance of his view of the Great Recession. </i><br /><br />Is it painful having your tongue stuck that far out in your cheek?Absalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09131268683451462949noreply@blogger.com