tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post4090721594567856044..comments2024-03-18T22:32:52.802-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: Tribal Reality and Extant RealityNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-80296246539963659362014-01-17T03:58:16.784-05:002014-01-17T03:58:16.784-05:00One of the biggest liberal BS ideas is that Affirm...One of the biggest liberal BS ideas is that Affirmative Action is not racist.<br /><br />Racism is treating people differently because of their race. AA treats people differently because of their race. But it's not racism, because of prior anti-Black racism (by the Jim Crow Democratic Party).<br /><br />One can fight fire with fire, or with water. But to say one is using water when one is fire is BS.<br /><br />Most Dem Party positions about poverty and gov't policies to reduce poverty are BS, and designed to allow Dems to label those opposing such policies as racists or anti-poor, even when the policy effects are terrible. <br /><br />How bad does Dem loving Detroit have to be before the dumb Dem voters their start changing the party they vote for? (In Science, it is usually a generation, where the old generation of "true believers" dies out and the young ones are able to accept new theories to account for the results.)Tom Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15046612425809449502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-60338303431818156452014-01-14T16:37:10.499-05:002014-01-14T16:37:10.499-05:00I don't know about Noah, but I know a number o...I don't know about Noah, but I know a number of academics who reject evolution, and all of them are politically conservative.rosserjb@jmu.eduhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300046915843554101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-68001340144068548452014-01-14T12:41:11.994-05:002014-01-14T12:41:11.994-05:00The notion that there was a time when the consensu...The notion that there was a time when the consensus view was reliably the right one, because everybody was able to observe the same stuff? Well,... no. Adam Smith says "no" and I say "no" and reality says "no". <br /><br />Your point would have been fine if you hadn't carried it to the extreme, but there have always been "experts". Often, they were the old guys and the old dames in the tribe. Everybody but one in the tribe could insist that buffalo have always come through the pass within a moon of the last snow, and the one could be right. It didn't take technology, just wider experience. <br /><br />I realize that this statement - "This was the first time in human history that this had ever happened" - is meant facetiously, but you seem to believe the point behind it. If anything, the long-ago past may have been a low bullshit time, but you simply can't make the case that it was a no bullshit time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40734185185269321932014-01-14T11:42:05.697-05:002014-01-14T11:42:05.697-05:00Just out of curiosity, Noah, I'm sure you know...Just out of curiosity, Noah, I'm sure you know a lot of conservatives personally - do any of them reject the theory of evolution?Douglas B. Levenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07916420802096618688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-68614831730065567202014-01-14T11:27:56.739-05:002014-01-14T11:27:56.739-05:00The idea of an extant reality is far older than yo...The idea of an extant reality is far older than you imagine. It comes from the basic western belief in a single all-powerful creator who structured.am world based on rules. God's Laws were the things that Newton was searching for. Much of the eastern religious world didn't have the basic requirement that the world had universal rules per se. Without this insight any discovery does not immediately suggest other insights. Since the world had nonbedrock principles any discovery was not as useful for unraveling the world.<br /><br />Ironically, the idea of God's Law was used as a way to enforce tribal reality by application of bullshit that the rules of the world derived their power from something beyond. Because there existed.only a single all powerful creator there could only be a single way in which that creator constructed the world. This also allowed an individual to challenge.tribal reality by asserting that the tribal reality was in fact a distortion of God's Law and that the extant reality was in fact true. <br /><br /> Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13305124836711242805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-26157741288424621592014-01-13T18:20:20.747-05:002014-01-13T18:20:20.747-05:00I think I see the problem. If you look at the pol...I think I see the problem. If you look at the poll, what it says is, if you believe in evolution, do you think this occurs via natural selection or because of some divine intervention. This question structure is flawed. If you are a religious person, chances are you believe in both. You believe that the maker guides the process, but that by outward appearances, natural selection is at work. <br /><br />What you are saying is that the majority of conservatives either: 1). don't believe in evolution, or 2). believe in evolution, but believe it is guided by divine intervention. This is correct according to the poll. However, this is very different from saying that the majority of conservatives don't believe in evolution.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-43932702691484660742014-01-13T17:02:54.023-05:002014-01-13T17:02:54.023-05:00Aside: this is probably because the number of rep...Aside: this is probably because the number of republicans is shrinking.Jefftopiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05005211633248766565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-92143245776298539762014-01-13T14:08:07.212-05:002014-01-13T14:08:07.212-05:00So the West was the first to begin the hard, pains...<i>So the West was the first to begin the hard, painstaking, uncertain task of bending Extant Reality to the will of humankind.</i><br /><br />Sorry, but couldn't get past this.o. natenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-86842258429106254602014-01-13T11:19:42.272-05:002014-01-13T11:19:42.272-05:00I just wanted to say that this might be my favorit...I just wanted to say that this might be my favorite blog post ever. And the comments from people who either don't or choose not to understand it just make it better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-71313881340161095232014-01-13T08:33:46.911-05:002014-01-13T08:33:46.911-05:00This is pretty much the right defense of the EMH. ...This is pretty much the right defense of the EMH. It is basically right. <br />I know you weren't trying to be exhaustive, but you were basically implying that what we know that is true, and what we know that isn't true make a complete set. They don't, and distinguishing between the two is not the chief challenge in investing.<br />The far more important component of the set is the unknowable. How do you invest when the future is path dependent. That is the question.<br /><br /><br />Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15136541075745913165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-23842548968124221792014-01-13T07:20:03.950-05:002014-01-13T07:20:03.950-05:00Interesting that you say there's no Japanese t...Interesting that you say there's no Japanese term for 'bullshit' because in Hawaii the most common synonym we have for BS is a Japanese term (shibai*). <br /><br />* I can confirm the word is not used in Japan the way it is in Hawaii though. Also the wikipedia for shibai appears to have been taken over by lizard people; the word is always used to mean something almost identical to bullshit (but most commonly in political/corporate contexts).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-44133516307176726502014-01-13T06:58:27.944-05:002014-01-13T06:58:27.944-05:00Hate to say this Noah, but even Galileo isn't ...Hate to say this Noah, but even Galileo isn't an unambiguous case as is usually perceived:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Dialogue<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Historiography<br /><br />There's room for reasonable disagreement here, I think, particularly how much his persecution came from him satirizing the pope in the 'Dialogue'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-24823562255076831282014-01-13T04:23:09.639-05:002014-01-13T04:23:09.639-05:00Actually this is a pretty good post, I especially ...Actually this is a pretty good post, I especially liked the Carlin links, didn't know about him before. Also am I far from truth to say that you may have your share of reading Lesswrong/Yudkowski?<br /><br />Anyways nice and funny post. Also reading some comments is hilarious given the theme. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14853090724221729923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-10720095368172923592014-01-13T02:30:01.872-05:002014-01-13T02:30:01.872-05:00If you want to find a great source of tribal bulls...If you want to find a great source of tribal bullshit, look no further than software development. Kind of scary, but not really surprising if you think about it a little.Christian Goetzehttp://fortified-bikesheds.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-31555850055561528132014-01-13T01:18:35.428-05:002014-01-13T01:18:35.428-05:00I like the "think for yourself" moral of...I like the "think for yourself" moral of the blog post, but there is some history of science bullshitting going on in this post . Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-16169821246637077472014-01-12T23:57:11.433-05:002014-01-12T23:57:11.433-05:00Many prostate health Australia clinics are operati...Many <a href="http://www.abandonyourinhibitions.com/skills-workshops/couples-workshops/" rel="nofollow">prostate health Australia</a> clinics are operating towards finding adequate solutions to disfunction medical care treatment.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08740604433840323331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-6692559509382188672014-01-12T23:04:41.566-05:002014-01-12T23:04:41.566-05:00http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/1231/Per...http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/1231/Percentage-of-Republicans-who-believe-in-evolution-is-shrinkingNoah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-40192506283620336552014-01-12T23:01:03.006-05:002014-01-12T23:01:03.006-05:00Noah, I'm assuming your just joking when you s...Noah, I'm assuming your just joking when you say that Conservatives don't believe in evolution. Obviously some Conservatives don't believe in evolution, but I'd guess that most do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-83941865211575656062014-01-12T22:49:55.985-05:002014-01-12T22:49:55.985-05:00My comment section has been invaded by Tribal Real...My comment section has been invaded by Tribal Reality! :-oNoah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-85579056812511507492014-01-12T22:49:02.449-05:002014-01-12T22:49:02.449-05:00Definitely anti-GMO hysteria is bullshit. Global w...Definitely anti-GMO hysteria is bullshit. Global warming? Well *I'm* worried about it. Maybe some people are out there who are raising the alarm who aren't actually worried, but I know lots of people are honestly worried.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-2092486027135831642014-01-12T22:19:01.169-05:002014-01-12T22:19:01.169-05:00TGGP, the "tribe" in question is that of...TGGP, the "tribe" in question is that of those who read actual historians.gcallahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065877215969589482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-74661231971207809802014-01-12T19:31:51.479-05:002014-01-12T19:31:51.479-05:00I don't think I'm in the same "tribe&...I don't think I'm in the same "tribe" as Gene, we are on opposite sides regarding religion, reductionism and other things. He just seems to have a better understanding of history.<br /><br />Victor, yes the warming expected in the future is precisely the problem.TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-71230225081192055252014-01-12T18:26:12.962-05:002014-01-12T18:26:12.962-05:00two* mired in the tribal sewagetwo* mired in the tribal sewageAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-87872699449833478382014-01-12T18:24:44.739-05:002014-01-12T18:24:44.739-05:00This was entertaining. (And who says every blog po...This was entertaining. (And who says every blog post has to be insightful in some new and profound way? Entertaining is rare enough.)<br /><br />For fun, what would you consider liberal bullshit? I would put global warming at the top of the list. I'm not a global warming skeptic, but I am skeptical that most liberals really care whether or not global warming is true. GM-free and organic food mania also strike me as good candidates. I'm struggling (perhaps because I am to mired in the tribal sewage) to think of non-Green examples.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-13274157107216254352014-01-12T18:14:32.845-05:002014-01-12T18:14:32.845-05:00Great post.
"...occasionally, the Wisdom of C...Great post.<br />"...occasionally, the Wisdom of Crowds breaks down catastrophically. Once in a great while, Consensus Reality gets tricked by Tribal Reality. When Tribal Reality takes over, people repeat bullshit "stories" to each other, until they actually become willing to bet on them. Those bets push up prices, which lends the bullshit narrative credence, making more people join the "noise trader" herd, and it snowballs into a gigantic bubble." <br /><br />Consider the possibility that this happens when the negative unintended cousniquenses of a stable political/economic system start to outweigh the positive effects. In other words, what onced actually worked no longer is effective and situational truth becomes bullshit.<br /><br />but belief in policies persists because guiding mythologies grow around the situational truths. <br /><br />Example...When the economy is operating at full employment it is easy to see the truth that unemployment benefits can discourage worker participation. Yet somehow that morphs into some people believing that when there are no jobs to be had, that taking away unemployment benefits will create jobs. <br /><br /><br />Bill Ellisnoreply@blogger.com