tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post8680649838822874223..comments2024-03-28T03:16:14.104-04:00Comments on Noahpinion: The Hugo Award sillinessNoah Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-46378044774622806242015-04-10T07:09:53.657-04:002015-04-10T07:09:53.657-04:00I don't think there's any evidence that Ga...I don't think there's any evidence that GamerGate influenced the Hugo nominations. The total number of voters was only slightly higher than in previous years. If GamerGate had actually been involved, there'd been a huge boost in the number of voters. AFAIK, there was little discussion of the Sad Puppies on GamerGate sites until after the vote.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-13880082758834041392015-04-09T08:28:20.067-04:002015-04-09T08:28:20.067-04:00I don't see the fuss to be honest, it's a ...I don't see the fuss to be honest, it's a fan-based award, so it's always open to this kind of passion project by a group of fans. Nobody is suggesting they broke any rules, it just seems to be a bunch of pearl-clutching about how they "didn't play the right way." Except that there are authors (e.g. Scalzi) who have campaigned for themselves over the years, and I don't see how using your connections in a very small electorate to promote yourself places you on a moral high ground of any sort over people who campaigned on behalf of a variety of authors.<br /><br />And most of the reaction which concentrates on what awful right wing trogs and horrible people the Puppies are seems to be almost designed to let them point and say "ha, see I told you that's what SJWs always say." You can't accuse them of not knowing how to troll a certain kind of left winger that's for sure.<br /><br />Just to be clear, I think the Puppies schtick about too much political commentary or literary value in SF is absurd, I think they're wrong on the merits. However, right wing conservatives can be SF fans too and if people don't like how they're voting then the answer is buy a $40 membership yourself and vote next time. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-30361470076079161582015-04-08T01:37:36.759-04:002015-04-08T01:37:36.759-04:00This is true. He was pretty militarist, though.
...This is true. He was pretty militarist, though. <br /><br />There are many different flavors of politics.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-29438541813416904872015-04-08T00:58:45.020-04:002015-04-08T00:58:45.020-04:00"True, but like a purist libertarian of the C..."True, but like a purist libertarian of the Cato breed, he is liberal on social issues, which puts him far away from the Wrights and Beales (and the Heinleins and Cards) of the SF world."<br /><br />One has to wonder what being liberal on social issues entails if you consider Heinlein socially conservative. Have you ever actually read any Heinlein? He was not at all shy about writing novels that were basically thought experiments on a socially libertine future. You might try "Fear No Evil" or "Stranger in a Strange Land" neither of which I particularly cared for, but they should forever banish any ideas that Heinlein was socially conservative. "Friday" or "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" are IMHO much better stories that explore a libertine future as a side issue to the story, but the former two novels don't actually have much of a story they are basically a thought experiment on a profoundly libertarian and libertine society.bearcatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-64329942899493908812015-04-07T20:52:15.253-04:002015-04-07T20:52:15.253-04:00I give every book 100 pages.I give every book 100 pages.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-71085424370117110592015-04-07T17:33:53.857-04:002015-04-07T17:33:53.857-04:00How the hell did you make it through 100 pgs? How the hell did you make it through 100 pgs? Scottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-38888353977819577422015-04-07T17:10:37.780-04:002015-04-07T17:10:37.780-04:00Star trek as a Libertarian fantasy? What planet (h...Star trek as a Libertarian fantasy? What planet (heh) are you on?<br />I willnpost as myself from home, stupid ipad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-82429433667607596422015-04-07T17:06:54.212-04:002015-04-07T17:06:54.212-04:00"It's a mind boggle."
It's beca..."It's a mind boggle."<br /><br />It's because, as a glibertarian, you're deeply unaware of your intellectual limitations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-72585520733754586262015-04-07T17:04:28.316-04:002015-04-07T17:04:28.316-04:00Yeah, I think his prose style works a lot better f...Yeah, I think his prose style works a lot better for short fiction than for novels. A number of writers are like that, actually (and some are the reverse).Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-49425143238980600932015-04-07T15:53:26.908-04:002015-04-07T15:53:26.908-04:00I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with sod...I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with sodomy and it's great the cartoon girls / guys are gay that's awesome.<br /><br />But when I grew up, Sci-Fi was Libertarian awesome, even the "socialism" of Star Trek was just the same guys being in charge after they made everything free.<br /><br />Sci-Fi let you dig the evolutionary theory and crazy paradigm frames to think thru and past the horrible averageness of today.<br /><br />I can't even imagine what a SJW Sci-Fi thing would be.<br /><br />Is the hero a person of avg talents who resents exceptional people doing exceptional things because of their privilege?<br /><br />It's a mind boggle. <br /><br />morganAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-24452518442018573622015-04-07T15:36:58.447-04:002015-04-07T15:36:58.447-04:00I did finish the Golden Age trilogy, and thought i...I did finish the Golden Age trilogy, and thought it pretty atrocious. Turgid and boring. However I did like his short story "Twilight of the Gods" to which the bombastic prose style actually contributed. Ca. 2010.Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-59945346672420497522015-04-07T13:26:28.829-04:002015-04-07T13:26:28.829-04:00If my post was civil, it just goes to show how un-...If my post was civil, it just goes to show how un-civil the discussion in the SF world has become! I thought it was pretty mean, myself.<br /><br />Anyway, Mr. Wright, here is what you wrote to the producers of the Legend of Korra TV show:<br /><br /><i>Mr DiMartino and Mr Konietzko: You are disgusting, limp, soulless sacks of filth. You have earned the contempt and hatred of all decent human beings forever, and we will do all we can to smash the filthy phallic idol of sodomy you bow and serve and worship. Contempt, because you struck from behind, cravenly; and hatred, because you serve a cloud of morally-retarded mental smog called Political Correctness, which is another word for hating everything good and bright and decent and sane in life.</i><br /><br />That's far beyond the standards of civil dialogue in my corner of the blogosphere. Where I come from, you just don't get to talk like that. Imagine saying something like that at a party. There's a good chance you'd be slapped and thrown out into the street! But you said it in front of tens of thousands of people. <br /><br />As for gays, I want you to watch a few seconds of this video of fan reactions to that TV show ending you hate. I've started the video at 6:30, which I think you may find especially interesting:<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_I4UZuALp4&t=6m30s" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_I4UZuALp4&t=6m30s</a><br /><br />Those kids aren't being led astray by the producers. They wanted more homosexuality than the producers were willing to give them. <br /><br />If those kids hate "everything good and bright and decent and sane in life", then up is down, black is white, and -1 equals 1.<br /><br />But even if you were right, you need to stop saying things like the quote I wrote above.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-31911023170133059752015-04-07T13:11:15.171-04:002015-04-07T13:11:15.171-04:00True, but like a purist libertarian of the Cato br...True, but like a purist libertarian of the Cato breed, he is liberal on social issues, which puts him far away from the Wrights and Beales (and the Heinleins and Cards) of the SF world.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-79415192681299934132015-04-07T12:59:41.960-04:002015-04-07T12:59:41.960-04:00You are to be saluted, because at least your colum...You are to be saluted, because at least your column is respectful, decent, and non-insane. It strikes me as the kind of thing where we could agree to disagree, shake hands, and remain civil. <br /><br />Not many of the Puppy Hating club are so reasonable, so I thank you for that. <br /><br />PS, I have nothing against homosexuals, any more than I have any illwill against drunks. It is the liars and propagandists I dislike, people trying to liquor up the drunks I dislike. <br /><br />A gay member of my family killed himself because he left his wife and family to pursue the type of non-reproductive love affairs all the liars told him would make him happy. He was mislead. To his death. <br /><br />Him I loved. Them I hate. Can you see why? <br /><br />Please read what I write more carefully, and don't misrepresent what I say.John Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492341011399861469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-15933797935353868572015-04-07T12:24:58.841-04:002015-04-07T12:24:58.841-04:00He did once tell me that he thought anarcho-capita...<i>He did once tell me that he thought anarcho-capitalism might really work, though! </i><br /><br />He's a libertarian true believer. That's pretty far out on the political fringe, thank G-d. Plus, since the libertarians sold their souls to the Republican party, that makes them a right wing fringe.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01874452998675783899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-62874976653382952802015-04-07T12:17:27.118-04:002015-04-07T12:17:27.118-04:00This seems to largely be a power play between thos...This seems to largely be a power play between those "in" and those "out" of the hugo award process. Those "in" have resorted to a coordinated smear campaign (led by EW - https://archive.today/0NH1i , backfiring as Enteratinment Weekly had to issue a remarkable correction https://archive.today/hrxzn David A. Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00465387359523299616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-65415026710654260172015-04-07T11:11:34.364-04:002015-04-07T11:11:34.364-04:00This is why we can't have nice things.
I deci...This is why we can't have nice things.<br /><br />I decides a long time ago I will enjoy things by people like Kanye West, Mel Gibson, and Tom Cruise, no matter how personally distasteful they may act.Meegshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539720852751865084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-51546838937066950872015-04-07T10:41:37.884-04:002015-04-07T10:41:37.884-04:00For a detailed analysis of the Sad Puppies experim...For a detailed analysis of the Sad Puppies experiment see this by Matthew David Surridge at the Black Gate website. It's well worth reading if you're interested in science fiction. <br /><br />http://www.blackgate.com/2015/04/04/a-detailed-explanation/<br /><br />"I declined a Hugo nomination for this year’s Best Fan Writer award. I think it’s only fair to the people who voted for me to say why. <br /><br />... There are three reasons, which all derive from one source. In mid-February, researching an article for another site — an article that in the end never got written — I stumbled on the Hugo slate put forward by Brad Torgersen for the Sad Puppies 3 campaign. At which time I found that I was one of the names suggested for Best Fan Writer. I later found that Vox Day had also suggested me as a part of his Rabid Puppies slate. This all quite surprised me ...<br /><br /> I’m honestly impressed with the Puppy voters’ willingness to step outside their usual politics. My understanding is that most of the people involved in the Sad Puppies campaigns are right-wing Americans, whereas I’m a left-wing Canadian and therefore to a right-wing American probably indistinguishable from Karl Marx ...<br /><br />Having said that I disagree with these principles, I think it’s only polite to outline where and why. I regret that what follows is exceptionally long and pedantic. But finding myself in public disagreement with someone, I think it’s best to be as precise as possible in stating where that disagreement lies. And many of these issues are complex, and deeply interlinked one with another. ...<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-51158237714127789802015-04-07T10:10:05.736-04:002015-04-07T10:10:05.736-04:00Yep, I tried The Golden Age. 100 pages of it. Had ...Yep, I tried The Golden Age. 100 pages of it. Had to quit. Awful writing. And concept-wise, very little that hadn't been done years earlier by Tony Daniel in Metaplanetary, or by Greg Egan in Diaspora. Both of which you should read if you haven't, BTW.<br /><br />Vernor Vinge, who is my favorite sci-fi author, is not a right-wing nutcase, or even right-wing. He did once tell me that he thought anarcho-capitalism might really work, though! Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-35231891081620426302015-04-07T10:05:59.064-04:002015-04-07T10:05:59.064-04:00Yuppp :-)Yuppp :-)Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-80519631482277527262015-04-07T07:00:48.817-04:002015-04-07T07:00:48.817-04:00Have you tried John C. Wright's The Golden Age...Have you tried John C. Wright's The Golden Age? It's the original trilogy in the world of the story you've linked to, and I've enjoyed it immensely. His Orphans of Chaos trilogy is also pretty good, although more recent work has been lesser in quality. <br /><br />He's not the only quality sci-fi writer, who's also a right wing nut. Vernor Vinge for example - great writing, nonsensical politics. I would rather keep myself ignorant of their politics, and just enjoy the fiction by itself.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01874452998675783899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-52961863597940657932015-04-07T06:03:00.143-04:002015-04-07T06:03:00.143-04:00So this is really about ethics in gaming Hugo nomi...So this is really about ethics in gaming Hugo nominations?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-90596577321767243902015-04-07T03:29:37.117-04:002015-04-07T03:29:37.117-04:00Right, I get the impression that the Sad Puppies l...Right, I get the impression that the Sad Puppies list was more diverse, while the Rabid Puppies list was more straight-up right-wingers.Noah Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093917601641588575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17232051.post-21143590056918380302015-04-07T03:25:49.849-04:002015-04-07T03:25:49.849-04:00When rightists and leftists fight, no one wins.
I...<i>When rightists and leftists fight, no one wins.</i><br /><br />I agree, yet I wonder here if The Telegraph article might be a part of the problem rather than merely a neutral observer. At the moment, <a href="http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/06/hugo-award-nominations-sad-puppies" rel="nofollow">Entertainment Weekly wrote a similar article</a> which now has been rewritten with the following update:<br /><br /><i>CORRECTION: After misinterpreting reports in other news publications, EW published an unfair and inaccurate depiction of the Sad Puppies voting slate, which does, in fact, include many women and writers of color. As Sad Puppies’ Brad Torgerson explained to EW, the slate includes both women and non-caucasian writers, including Rajnar Vajra, Larry Correia, Annie Bellet, Kary English, Toni Weisskopf, Ann Sowards, Megan Gray, Sheila Gilbert, Jennifer Brozek, Cedar Sanderson, and Amanda Green.</i><br /><br />Just how politically diverse these authors are (which is the dimension you're commenting about though the Telegraph article references primarily gender/racial angles) I'm not quite sure. I've heard claims from the Sad Puppies group that they are but I'm skeptical about that.Davehttp://www.rotundus.com/noreply@blogger.com