
It all started when I clicked on Matt Yglesias' link to this blog post, which quotes the following line from John Derbyshire's new book, We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism: Sun People [black and Hispanic] kids are, in the broad generality, unacademic and unruly.
This seems, upon first glance, to reflect the 18th-century theory that white people (and Asians) evolved in cold climates that required them to organize and cooperate, making them more inclined to follow rules and better able to work in groups. Although it's been around for hundreds of years, this theory of race is still conventional wisdom for many, and today usually includes the corollary belief that "Sun People" have lower natural intelligence than white and Asian "Ice People." It is regarded as a bedrock of truth by a number of contemporary "paleoconservative" writers, most notably Steve Sailer. Normally, upon reading a statement like this, I would snort and click on another link.
But this statement came from John Derbyshire. John Derbyshire is a man I respect, not least for delivering the all-time best takedown of "intelligent design" and expounding on the difference between urban and rural conservatives. He is also a man of great intelligence, a mathematician by trade. We have corresponded a number of times. So I decided to write him and explore why his thinking on race appeared, at first blush, to follow a line that was so much more conventional than his usual approach. I wrote: In your new book you state that "Sun People kids are, in the broad generality, unacademic and unruly." I was wondering if you knew that Indian-Americans are, on average, the American ethnic group with the highest academic achievement and (by far) the highest median personal income.
And, assuming that you do in fact know this, I was wondering if you would classify Indians as "Sun People," given that they come from a hot sunny subtropical country and have very dark skin.
Derbyshire was kind enough to post a reply on his blog: The precise terms of the Arctic Alliance are still in draft stage, and subcontinental Asians are giving us a lot of trouble. IQ-wise, the population is multimodal, with low overall means. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka are listed here with mean IQs of 82, 84, 82, and 79 respectively, ranking them at 123rd, 104th, 121st, and 135th out of 190. Some of the subpopulations in this area seem to show much better statistics, though, and among Hindus the caste system adds complications. In the matter of heredity, there are both European (from the Aryan invasions) and East Asian (from the Moghuls, who were a Turko-Mongolian blend) ancestries mixed in with a confusion of aboriginal stocks. See Chapter 36 of Michael Hart's Understanding Human History for a fuller account of subcontinental ancestry.
The general opinion on the Alliance drafting committee is that subcontinental immigration into Arctopia should be generous but highly selective, focused on the professional and entrepreneurial classes …
… just as it currently is for the U.S.A.
That didn't seem to really get at the question I was asking. The unresolved contradiction of the "Sun People/Ice People" theory remained - either Indians haven't yet had time to (d)evolve from their "Ice People" ancestors (which begs the question of why Hispanics are supposedly so different from both whites and Asiatics), or there is a lot more going on than the "Sun People" idea can explain.
So I responded with an even more long-winded email:
If the alleged unruliness of "Sun People" is genetically determined, then another problem presents itself: namely, the fact that Hispanics are a genetic mix of whites ("Ice People") and Native Americans (a racial group renowned for being taciturn and restrained). How do two non-unruly groups mix to make an unruly group? A related issue is that Native Americans are thought to be descended from Asiatic peoples, who migrated south from very cold climes as recently as 10,000 years ago — meaning that their ancestors were probably "Ice People" just as recently as the ancestors of the South Asians or the Vietnamese
(And if the unruliness of "Sun People" is culturally determined, then surely Indians have been living in the sun long enough to have become unruly — not to mention the Cantonese, who are generally above-average in business and academics among the Chinese.)
And regarding your proposal for "generous but selective" Indian immigration, why should a different standard hold for Africans and Latin Americans? Surely it is only to our advantage to recruit smart blacks and Hispanics for our population. In other words, it seems unclear to me why the existence of aggregate racial disparities in the U.S. population (which itself may be due in part to selection effects, e.g. slaves being selected for economic poverty and physical strength) should have any implication whatsoever for our immigration policy, since a method exists to evaluate individual intellectual abilities quite easily (i.e. look at their job skills).
And again, Derb was gracious enough to reply at length:
There is nothing "alleged" about Sun People unruliness. Violent street gangs in the U.S.A. are almost exclusively black and Hispanic. When Ice People form criminal fraternities (the Mafia, the Triads) they have an utterly different character, and mostly stay off the streets. U.S. prison life is dominated by Crips and Aztecas, not by wiseguys and hung gwan jai. For the situation in schools, which is what I was actually writing about, ask a teacher, or conduct the experiment I recommend at 128.2.
On the ancestry point, the ancestry of Hispanics in most parts of the US is 60 to 70 percent European, though for immigrants since the 1980s, the proportion is more like 40 to 50 percent. The overall average is around 65 percent European ancestry. Razib at Gene Expression has some good diagrams & comments here. For a detailed academic study, with lots of cool charts and state-by-state analyses, see here.
I am not a genetic determinist [144.4]. At the individual level, any large population includes great variation: fat and thin, extrovert and introvert; short and tall; smart and dumb. At the group level, overall population characteristics revealed by statistics — supplemented, increasingly, by population-genetic studies like the HapMap — give clues as to the limits within which that population, as a population, can be expected to achieve on the various indices of civilized social behavior.
I don't believe we know enough about population genetics to make predictions about mixed populations. Mixtures can deliver results that defy simple arithmetic, as Mark Steyn's well-worn analogy involving ice cream and dog poop illustrates. Unruliness in any case seems to be strongly influenced by social environment: in particular, by mismatches between (a) the skill set distributions among young people, especially young men (those distributions obviously having some connection to the distributions of innate capability), and (b) the opportunities for useful, non-unruly employment in the surrounding society. A surplus of young men relative to opportunities in trade and farming gave us the Vikings and the terrifying Magyar Horde … who then settled down to be polite, pacifistic — in fact, "taciturn and restrained" — Scandinavia and the Christian Kingdom of Hungary. In the Magyars' case, the settling down took less than a century, suggesting that no genetic changes were involved.
If all that is right, then the thing to avoid is lots of young people with low cognitive ability in a society with a small and diminishing supply of low-cognitive-ability employments. In a different society, with different employments, those young men might indeed be "taciturn and restrained": in the society they actually find themselves in, not. (And by the way, I am not sure that the inhabitants of Wolstenholme Towne, Swansea, Mound City, Fort Dearborn, etc., etc. would concur with your "taciturn and restrained.")
As to your "as recently as 10,000 years ago," that span of time is quite sufficient for significant genetic changes. Here is a recent book on the subject. Living in the sun doesn't do it (apologies to Prof. Jeffries here); what seems to do it is agriculture, a late arrival in the Americas.
Your last paragraph seems to suggest an immigration policy based on job skills. Lots of luck getting that through Congress! Current policy favors (a) persons with relatives already settled here, and (b) persons able and willing to cross an international border without permission. [201.7] Would your policy be a better one? For sure! Where do I sign?
There are other factors to be considered, though. Morality, for example. IQ studies suggest that at least part of the problem in big under-achieving populations like sub-Saharan Africans or Native Americans is that these populations don't contain enough smart people. Now you want to lure away the few smart people they have? And then there are those results from psychology telling us that at a deep level, great numbers of us can't be comfortable around persons of obviously different deep ancestry. [16.5] It may be that, even if you take job skills and IQ out of the equation, multiethnic societies can't be stable. Perhaps we should postpone further experiments in multiethnicity until we understand more about this.
In any case I am an immigration restrictionist and so can blithely finesse the issue. I'd like to see immigration cut dramatically — to a few ten thousands a year. At that level we could take the people we want from absolutely everywhere, without any possibility of dire effects, to us or them.
It's how you salt your stew. [212.7] Or, as the great English immigration restrictionist Enoch Powell used to say, and say, and say: Numbers are of the essence. Indeed they are, always and everywhere.
After this, I was a bit confused. If the Magyars (Hungarians) achieved civilized "Ice People" status a mere century after settling down and adopting agriculture (a thesis I find extremely plausible), then why haven't Hispanics (who have had agriculture for centuries) or blacks (who have had it for millennia) become "Ice People"?
And if Derbyshire is "not a genetic determinist," then why is it at all significant that "[genetic m]ixtures can deliver results that defy simple arithmetic"?
And why would someone who is not a "genetic determinist" make a statement like "IQ studies suggest that at least part of the problem in big under-achieving populations like sub-Saharan Africans or Native Americans is that these populations don't contain enough smart people"? (Note: it does not seem to me that it is within the power of IQ studies to demonstrate any such thing; what they "suggest" is of course completely dependent on one's personal supposition.)
My guess is that Derbyshire doesn't really know what he thinks about race and genetics. He sees group differences but doesn't have the data to explain them (because no one does); this makes him susceptible to the siren song of the "scientific racists," who are some of the only people talking openly about black-white differences in terms of group characteristics. Deep down, Derbyshire has a lot of doubt about the "black and Hispanic people are just a bunch of dum-dums" argument, but he can't resist the urge to - as F. Scott Fitzgerald so memorably put it - "nibble at the edges of stale ideas."
But when Derbyshire attempts to form his own, non-stale explanation for the alleged "unruliness" of the people he labels "Sun People," he comes up with something a lot better than Sailer-ism:
Unruliness in any case seems to be strongly influenced by social environment: in particular, by mismatches between (a) the skill set distributions among young people, especially young men (those distributions obviously having some connection to the distributions of innate capability), and (b) the opportunities for useful, non-unruly employment in the surrounding society. A surplus of young men relative to opportunities in trade and farming gave us the Vikings and the terrifying Magyar Horde … who then settled down to be polite, pacifistic — in fact, "taciturn and restrained" — Scandinavia and the Christian Kingdom of Hungary...If all that is right, then the thing to avoid is lots of young people with low cognitive ability in a society with a small and diminishing supply of low-cognitive-ability employments. In a different society, with different employments, those young men might indeed be "taciturn and restrained": in the society they actually find themselves in, not.
This strikes me as exactly the classic liberal explanation for the social ills of the urban underclass - the dissolution of the Rooseveltian political economy, with its paternalistic corporations and strong unions, threw the lower classes out of their guaranteed jobs, which resulted in family breakdown and increased crime. That is exactly the reason why the liberal solution to so many social ills is to (partially) re-establish government and non-government institutions that help low-skilled individuals maintain stable, productive employment.
Judging from the fact that he mostly scorns this kind of liberal solution, Derbyshire seems to think it's just not going to work; our only chance at maintaining a stable society is to throw up the ramparts, install the automated machine-gun turrets, and put up a big sign that says "Only the demonstrably smart may enter." Naturally, such a "solution" is a non-starter in a country that is already 13% black, 14.5% Hispanic, and 5% Asian, which might explain why Derbyshire's book is titled "We Are Doomed."
Maybe it's because I'm (somewhat) young, but I just don't see the point of sitting around saying "We Are Doomed." Even if you believe that the "smart people only" American fortress state would be the optimum (which I do not, since the idea of math geniuses working as janitors does not particularly appeal to me), you must admit that it's not in the cards. Why, then, not at least try the liberal solution? Why not try expanded public education, government job-finding services, stronger domestic-service-sector unions, national health care, etc.? Why not try teaching the Vikings to farm?
Unless, of course, you are a Steve Sailer, in which case you believe that our ghetto-dwelling black and Hispanic Vikings are too dum-dum to ever learn to be productive upwardly-mobile citizens. Unless you believe that "Sun People" and "Ice People" are truly two different races of man, fundamentally different in capability and potential. In which case we really are utterly doomed.
But something tells me John Derbyshire, pessimist that he is, is too smart by half to believe that.
(Additional notes/quibbles: the racial composition of American street gangs no more proves that blacks and Hispanics are inherently unruly than the sky-high Russian murder rate proves that whites are inherently unruly. And historical evidence of marauding Native American tribes is no more informative of group racial characteristics than the history of the Japanese Wako pirates, Swedish Vikings, etc., as Derbyshire himself points out in his own preceding paragraph...)